F-35 JSF

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nelson38899

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« Responder #150 em: Setembro 07, 2008, 10:20:09 pm »
mais um

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Canada Investing in F-35 Related R&D

The F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter is at least as much an industrial program as it is a fighter aircraft. The commitment stages involved have been carefully designed on all fronts, from the conflating of USMC, Navy, and Air force roles, to the 3-stage industrial commitment process by program member nations, which see the JSF as the only major industrial opportunity for fighter aircraft over the next 20 years. As articles like Bill Sweetman’s “JSF Office Makes Buyers an Offer They Cannot Refuse” explain, the F-35’s seeming inevitability as a major aerospace procurement program is critical to its success. Hence the recent discussions about capping prices far below the normal high cost of low-rate initial production aircraft, in exchange for sharp financial penalties to countries who buy less than their committed number.

Recent events in Canada illustrate another aspect of the F-35’s industrial strategy: its invitation to promote and fund specialized industrial competencies that can be applied elsewhere in the aerospace sector…

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/
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nelson38899

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« Responder #151 em: Setembro 11, 2008, 09:06:17 am »
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New Aussie fighter 'clubbed like seal

The federal opposition has dismissed new doubts about the capacity of the multi-billion dollar Joint Strike Fighter to perform against jets used by Russia and China.

- JSFs 'beaten' in simulated dogfights
- Australia likely to pay $16 billion
- War games 'not real life'

The JSF jets, for which Australia is likely to pay $16 billion, were comprehensively beaten in highly classified simulated dogfights against Russian-built Sukhoi fighter aircraft, it has been reported.

The war games, conducted at Hawaii's Hickam airbase last month, were witnessed by at least four RAAF personnel and a member of Australia's peak military spy agency, the Defence Intelligence Organisation, The West Australian said.

Opposition defence spokesman Nick Minchin said he was taking "with a grain of salt" the validity of the report. "This is based on a computer game, computer modelling of the aircraft," he told Sky News.

"This is not real life."

Senator Minchin said he had a classified briefing on the JSF from its US manufacturer Lockheed-Martin which had promoted the aircraft as the most advanced jet fighter ever.

"I can't really say much about it, but this is a phenomenal aircraft.

"As our chief of defence Angus Houston has said this is a most extraordinary aircraft, it is the right aircraft for Australia."

The multi-purpose fighter would be the backbone of the United States military, Senator Minchin said.

"We are fortunate to be in it and the government should move to make the decision to acquire it."

WA Liberal backbencher Dennis Jensen said he had spoken to a third party with knowledge of the final classified test results who had claimed the JSF had been clubbed like baby seals by the simulated Sukhois, The West Australian reported.

He said the government should demand that the US Government sell it the F-22 which was already in operation instead of the JSF.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/new-a ... -4e6b.html
"Que todo o mundo seja «Portugal», isto é, que no mundo toda a gente se comporte como têm comportado os portugueses na história"
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triton

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« Responder #152 em: Setembro 11, 2008, 10:29:33 am »
é possivel um F16 destruir um F35 em combate :?:
 

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« Responder #153 em: Setembro 11, 2008, 11:16:11 am »
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é possivel um F16 destruir um F35 em combate :wink:
 

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nelson38899

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« Responder #154 em: Setembro 11, 2008, 11:25:45 am »
Nenhum caça é impossível de ser abatido mesmo sendo invisível ao radar, basta ver que ainda à uns tempos um thyphoon abateu um raptor, isto aconteceu porque o thyphoon detectou o radar do raptor.
"Que todo o mundo seja «Portugal», isto é, que no mundo toda a gente se comporte como têm comportado os portugueses na história"
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Smoke Trails

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« Responder #155 em: Setembro 17, 2008, 12:27:05 pm »
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When Britain’s Minister for Defence Procurement, Lord Drayson, signed the MoU (Memorandum of Understanding), it seemed to many to mark the resolution of a long-running and occasionally bitter dispute between the US and UK over the transfer of sensitive technology and access to software source codes.

However, the House of Commons Defence Committee’s report on Defence Procurement, published on December 8 2006, expressed a number of concerns about the programme. The UK had already made it clear that it would require ‘operational sovereignty’ over the aircraft and that it would not be able to buy the Joint Strike Fighter without the transfer of technology and the information needed to autonomously and independently operate, maintain, sustain, support and upgrade it.

‘Operational sovereignty’ was differentiated from industrial sovereignty, and was described by Defence Secretary Des Browne as: “our ability to operate the aircraft safely for our pilots and aircrew; to maintain, repair and upgrade it, and to integrate into the UK operating environment some of the centres of communications, so that the enhancements you have to do for each operational deployment and each mission plan can be done, as we would for other aircraft in the Royal Air Force and in the Royal Navy,”

Because the F-35 is to an unparalleled extent a software-driven aircraft, tasks which could once have been undertaken by the customer or by local industry now require access to software source codes. Even basic airframe repairs may need access to sensitive technologies, thanks to the aircraft’s stealthy coatings and structure. Under the previous (President Bill Clinton) administration, Britain had been assured that this would present no problem, but under President George Bush, protectionist interests and security concerns combined to bring the issue of technology transfer to the fore. It became clear that the US had concerns about sensitive technology data being leaked to other countries.

However, despite the efforts of the Minister for Defence Procurement, the Chief of Defence Procurement and MoD officials to ensure that the United States was fully aware of the information the UK needed, the committee noted that it was still uncertain as to whether the US was actually prepared to provide the information.

The committee urged that if the UK was unable to obtain the assurances it needed by the end of the year, it should not sign the Memorandum of Understanding, and should switch the majority of its effort and funding on the programme into developing a fallback ‘Plan B’. This would guarantee that an alternative aircraft would be available in case the UK had to withdraw from the JSF programme and ensure that it did not find itself with no aircraft to operate from HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, Royal Navy’s two new aircraft carriers due to enter service in the 2012-2015 time-frame.

There was some progress on establishing industry-to-industry relationships in 2006, and at the Farnborough Air Show Lockheed Martin and BAE Systems announced a clear arrangement identifying BAE as the lead in delivering sustainability and support to the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy. The agreement also identified the role to be played by Lockheed Martin, including supporting BAE in gaining access to the necessary information, software access and technology.

Lord Drayson professed to have “received the necessary assurances from the US on technology transfer to allow me to sign the MoU”, through it is not clear whether sufficient guarantees have been made which will allow the UK to progress to an order in 2008. The UK government remains tight-lipped about the status of Britain’s contingency ‘Plan B’, which is understood to centre on at least two paid study contracts examining navalised Eurofighter Typhoon proposals.

Britain was not the only nation to have its reservations about signing the PSFD MoU. The programme also provoked debate in Australia and the Netherlands. In Australia, there as been pressure to cancel the JSF altogether, and instead acquire a smaller number of longer-range F-22s, or delay the purchase. Australia currently plans to buy relatively early production aircraft, estimated as possibly costing more than $100m each. In the Netherlands, there has been broad satisfaction with industrial participation in the SDD phase (with between $310m and $700m of work in return for the $800m investment), but the Dutch Court of Audit issued a cautionary report on the F-35 project, presenting the programme as a very high risk investment.

Currently Britain is focused on the F-35B (Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing version), despite its 450nm (830km) radius of action as against 600+nm (1,110km) for the land-based F-35A and over 700nm (1,300km) for the F-35C carrier version (CV). And because of the need to save weight, the F-35B now carries least ordnance over the shortest combat radius.

Given that the new Royal Navy carriers have grown from 40,000 to 65,000 tons, it makes much more sense to change the British JSF order to around 120 F-35Cs. The Royal Navy would have 50-60 to equip its carriers while the RAF would have the rest to reinforce expeditionary operations where necessary, or to undertake deep strike missions in a major conflict. British F-35Cs would enter service from 2015, at which point the Tornado GR4s would start to disband.

Lively debate is currently taking place in Australia about the procurement of one single combat aircraft to satisfy the country’s defence needs for the next 40 years. As reported in the Australian press, retired Air Vice Marshal Peter Criss argued that: “The Australian Government should explain its choice to buy the Lockheed Martin F-35 JSF to replace both the F/A-18 and F-111 in service, but should also consider other options.” One option is the F-22 Raptor.

The Australian situation is comparable to what happening in Canada, Norway, the Netherlands and Turkey. Each nation is considering replacing its current multi-role fighters (F-16 or F/A-18) with the F-35 JSF.

The F-35 seems to offer great advantages in terms of low observability, data-fusion, range, man-machine interface, interoperability, deployment capability, variety of armament, maintenance and support, as well as future growth.

The Americans conceived the F-35 primarily as a fighter-bomber, a new-generation aircraft to augment the F-22 Raptor and the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. It is the result of compromise, three different requirements (Conventional, Short Take Of and Vertical Landing and Carrier capable) fused into a single platform, with multi-role capability. A colossal challenge even for the high-tech might of US industry.

The concept of operating F-35 in future scenarios in which air superiority might be assured by aircraft with capabilities like the F-22 Raptor or the Eurofighter Typhoon, may be the correct option.

On the other hand, using F-35 for every kind of mission including air superiority, because there is no other means, against opponents equipped with Rafale, Flanker or next generation fighters from Russia and China could cause problems.

Consider an air combat scenario flown at Mach 1.6 at 30,000ft (9,144m), with a configuration of one fuel tank, four MRAAMs (medium-range air-to-air missiles) and two SRAAMs ( short-range air-to-air missiles). According to some sources, the Eurofighter Typhoon can sustain two turns at 4g, while the Block 52 F-16C cannot, and the F-35 designed to sustain 3g at Mach 1.2 with external loads.

With the advent of the F-22 and Eurofighter Typhoon, air-to-air capability includes supersonic cruise speeds (which also increase the energy and the capability of the medium-range missiles), very long range radar detection and high manoeuvrability, even at supersonic speed.

In the future, these features will be essential to achieve air superiority, particularly if future Russian and Chinese fighters also have them. According to data currently available, it is evident that F-35 has neither the acceleration nor the speed or thrust/weight-wing load ratio to be considered a real fighter. And its air-to-air armament configuration a choice between maintaining low observability at high speed with a few missiles carried internally or a maximum load of missiles (some carried on external pylons) at lower speed and higher observability.

Now some question why it is considered necessary to have a super-fighter, such as the F-22 or the Typhoon, in a world where the air threat – as experienced in Iraq and Afghanistan – is posed mainly to helicopters? History dictates that it is nearly impossible to predict what the threats of the future will be, and thus the preferred operational requirements. Thus, it is better to be protected by the best possible solution.

In addition, it is not only the operational needs that must be considered, but also the geopolitical situation of each country. The Netherlands, for example, is well integrated into NATO, and its position in the heart of Europe means it doesn’t face any threats within a radius of 800 nautical miles (1,500km).

Other countries do not enjoy the same fortunate location. Australia is positioned alone in the Pacific theatre, an area of great potential conflict due to the instability of disputes between North and South Korea, Taiwan and China. Islamic terrorism is growing in Indonesia and the Philippines. China’s economic and military expansion might cause problems arising from the exploitation of energy resources. Furthermore, Australia’s most important allies – the USA and the UK – are not close to hand.

The situation in the Middle East is more chronic than that of Korea and Taiwan. Iran and Syria show an aggressive foreign policy, especially against Israel, and both are trying to bolster their air forces with advanced combat aircraft. Saudi Arabia, with the purchase of the Typhoon, in terms of capability, has decided to move ahead of its neighbours. Iraq, Kurdistan and the Caucasus are other sources of serious concern. Due to the amount of oil that passes through the region, the Caucasus is crucial for the international energy supply.

All nations in the Balkans that are members of NATO are planning to procure new-generation fighters. In this respect, Turkey finds itself in a delicate position. Basing its current air defence capabilities solely on the F-16C and the F-35 in the future, could present a capability gap. Similarly, it is difficult to believe that Israel will in the future only field a mix of F-15s, F-16s and F-35s.

Other countries, such as Italy and the UK, are looking to introduce the F-35 into service to complement the Eurofighter Typhoon force.

At time of writing, Italy still has to confirm its final participation in the JSF programme, but even in the event of a negative decision by the current leftist Government, the Italian Air Force will be able to deploy the Eurofighter Typhoon in the air defence and strike roles.


“Joint Strike Fighter and the UK”, Jon Lake, pags 26-30, Air Forces Monthly February 2007
“One Fighter or Two?”, Dr Riccardo Niccoli, pags 32-36, Air Forces Monthly February 2007

 

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« Responder #156 em: Setembro 23, 2008, 06:31:24 pm »
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Lockheed Martin, Air Force defend F-35 fighter jet
Associated Press 09.19.08, 5:57 PM ET


 
WASHINGTON - Lockheed Martin and the Air Force on Friday took the unusual step of publicly defending a $300 billion fighter jet program from recent criticisms of the plane's capabilities, including reports that it performed poorly in a simulated fight with a Russian aircraft.

Lockheed Martin Corp. (nyse: LMT - news - people ), the nation's largest defense contractor, and the Air Force said that the F-35, which is intended to replace a variety of older aircraft flown by the Air Force, Marines and Navy, has outperformed all existing fighters in air combat simulations.

Company and service officials also said recent reports in the Australian press that the plane had been soundly defeated in computerized simulations by a Russian Sukhoi were not true. The test, part of a Pacific Vision Wargame, did not include air-to-air combat, according to Maj. Gen. Charles Davis, head of the Air Force's F-35 program.

The timing of such negative press reports comes at a "critical point" for the entire program with only a few months left before international partners begin to make final buying decisions, Davis told reporters on a conference call.

"It's disappointing, but not surprising that they come when they do," said Davis, who suggested that some critics were attempting to advance an agenda.

Australia, the Netherlands and the U.K. are expected to make their respective decisions in 2009, said Tom Burbage, Lockheed's executive vice president of the F-35 program.

Both Davis and Burbage also took issue with a Sept. 10 opinion piece published in Jane's Defence Weekly that criticized the F-35's capabilities and the Pentagon's strategy for buying it. Among the claims made by Pierre Sprey, a former Pentagon official who helped design the F-16, and Winslow Wheeler, an analyst with the Center for Defense Information, were that the plane is overweight, can't carry enough weaponry and is unable to adequately support ground troops.

The Air Force and Lockheed officials said Friday the F-35 has the most powerful engine ever installed in a fighter, outperforms other jets and has undergone extensive testing to ensure that its capabilities are sound.

Shares of Bethesda, Md.-based Lockheed fell $2.94 to $110.88.


Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed
 

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nelson38899

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« Responder #157 em: Setembro 24, 2008, 09:26:39 am »
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F-35 Fights Back

September 23, 2008: Recent media reports that the new U.S. F-35 was regularly defeated in computer simulated combats with the latest Russian fighters, prompted the U.S. Air Force to release a lot of its own data on F-35 effectiveness. Overall, the air force simulations and studies have shown the F-35 to be four times as effective against any current fighter (the best of them known as "fourth generation" aircraft.) The major advantages of the F-35 are engine power (it's one engine generates more power than the two engines used in the Eurofighter or F-18), stealth and the fact that it can fight "clean" (without any pods or missiles hung from its wings, and interfering with maximum maneuverability). While it's true that the F-35 would have problems in a dogfight with some aircraft (notably the Su-27/30 series), the F-35 was designed to spot the enemy first, get the first shot in, and stay out of range of an old-fashioned dog fight.

These BVR (Beyond Visual Range) tactics are untried in large scale combat, while dog fighting has been around since 1914. But everyone agrees that BVR (using superior sensors and long range missiles) tactics are the future. Not everyone agrees that the future is here yet.

The 27 ton F-35 is armed with an internal 25mm cannon and four internal air-to-air missiles (or two missiles and two smart bombs). Plus four external smart bombs and two missiles. All sensors are carried internally, and max weapon load is 6.8 tons. The first F-35s will be delivered in two years.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairf ... 80923.aspx
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« Responder #158 em: Setembro 24, 2008, 09:45:32 am »
Citação de: "nelson38899"
everyone agrees that BVR tactics are the future. Not everyone agrees that the future is here yet.


Achei interessante esta parte, então quer dizer que actualmente ainda se tem em conta o combate próximo talvez porque ainda seja possivel a um caça aproximar-se sem ser abatido por misseis BVR.
 

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nelson38899

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« Responder #159 em: Setembro 30, 2008, 09:44:40 pm »
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Israel to buy $15.2 bln in Lockheed fighters

WASHINGTON, Sept 30 (Reuters) - The U.S. government on Tuesday said it approved the sale to Israel of 25 F-35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft built by Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and an option for 50 more in coming years -- a deal valued at up to $15.2 billion.

The Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA), which oversees major arms sales, said the deal is vital to U.S. national security interests to assist Israel as it develops and maintains "a strong and ready self-defense capability."

Israel needs the aircraft to enhance its air-to-air and air-to-ground defense, the agency said.

The DSCA notified Congress about the proposed arms sale before lawmakers head back to their districts for the November election. Lawmakers now have 30 days to block the sales, but such action is rare, since the agreements are usually carefully vetted beforehand.

The Pentagon agency said Israel wants to buy an initial 25 F-35s in the Conventional Take-Off and Landing (CTOL) configuration, with an option to buy an additional 50 F-35 CTOL or Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) aircraft.

All aircraft would be equipped with either the F-135 engines built by Pratt and Whitney, a unit of United Technologies Corp (UTX.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), or the F-136 engine being developed by General Electric Co (GE.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Britain's Rolls-Royce Plc (RR.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz).

Lockheed Martin said it welcomes the decision. "As the first potential foreign military sale of the F-35, this would be an important first step in expanding interest in the Joint Strike Fighter beyond the U.S. government and eight international F-35 partner nations," said Lockheed spokesman Tom Jurkowsky.

Earlier this month, the Pentagon approved up to $330 million in three separate arms deals for Israel.

Top Israeli and U.S. government officials met in Washington this month for the most senior bilateral high technology dialogue ever between the two allies. Discussions focused in part on ensuring that sensitive technologies were not passed to third parties.

Separately on Tuesday, the Pentagon approved Brazil's request to buy up to $525 million worth of 15 United Technologies Black Hawk helicopters and 30 General Electric engines. (Reporting by Andrea Shalal-Esa, editing by Gerald E. McCormick)
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssT...dChannel=10001
"Que todo o mundo seja «Portugal», isto é, que no mundo toda a gente se comporte como têm comportado os portugueses na história"
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nelson38899

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« Responder #160 em: Outubro 02, 2008, 09:16:32 pm »
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F-35 arrives at Edwards



10/1/2008 - An F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, numbered AA-1, taxis past the control tower on Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., Oct. 1. It marked the first time the aircraft arrived here. The F-35 will perform a series of tests, including airstart and noise testing. The aircraft flew in from Naval Air Station Fort Worth, Texas

http://www.afmc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123117840

"Que todo o mundo seja «Portugal», isto é, que no mundo toda a gente se comporte como têm comportado os portugueses na história"
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nelson38899

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« Responder #161 em: Outubro 06, 2008, 09:13:26 am »
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Lockheed official: Saudis not in talks for stealth fighter jet


Despite Israeli fears that Saudi Arabia is on its way to acquiring the stealth Joint Strike Fighter, Israel is the only Middle East country Lockheed Martin is currently in talks with regarding the sale of the fifth-generation jet, a top company executive said Sunday.

Israeli defense officials have recently raised concerns that the US will sell the new jet, also known as the F-35 Lightning II, to Saudi Arabia or even to Egypt - two countries with strong strategic ties with Washington. Due to these concerns, The Defense Ministry is pressing the Pentagon to allow the air force to install Israeli-made systems in the aircraft, which the IAF will likely begin receiving in 2014.

"No other countries in this part of the world are in discussions," Tom Burbage, general manager of the F-35 program for Lockheed Martin, told reporters in Tel Aviv on Sunday. Asked about Saudi Arabia, Burbage said there were no talks between Lockheed Martin and Riyadh regarding the plane.

Burbage also revealed that $200 million worth of contracts had been signed with Israeli defense companies involved in the development of systems related to the Joint Strike Fighter. He said this would likely increase to half a billion dollars by the end of the program.

Last week, the Pentagon announced plans to sell Israel up to 75 JSFs in a $15 billion deal. Nine countries - including Britain, Turkey and Australia - are members of the JSF program. Israel is a Security Cooperation Participant after paying $20m. in 2003 to obtain access to information accumulated during the development of the aircraft, which will be priced at approximately $80m. each.

Burbage said Israel would begin receiving the JSF in 2014. To meet that date, the air force will need to sign a contract with the Pentagon by October 2009.

The jet is still under development and is not yet in service, but the US plans to eventually acquire 2,458 planes for its army, Marines and air force at a cost of $300b. The F-35 was designed as a replacement for a range of warplanes, including the F-16, which is a large component of many air forces worldwide.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull
"Que todo o mundo seja «Portugal», isto é, que no mundo toda a gente se comporte como têm comportado os portugueses na história"
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« Responder #162 em: Outubro 09, 2008, 03:47:54 pm »
Italy Pulls Out of JSF’s Initial Operational Test and Evaluation

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Letter to Parliament (excerpt)
 
 
(Source: Dutch Ministry of Defence; issued Oct. 7, 2008)
   
 
 (Issued in Dutch only; unofficial translation by defense-aerospace.com)
 
 
 
 As a result of the general consultation of 1 October last, I am informing you of the decision by Italy concerning its participation to the Initial Operational Test And Evaluation (IOT& E) of the JSF. (…/…)

Recently the Italian project director has informed the Dutch, American and British partners that Italy will abandon its participation to the IOT& E and, with that, also of the purchase of the first test aircraft this year.

As a reason, the new [Italian] government has invoked the need to reduce expenditure.


The Italian decision has no financial consequences for the Netherlands.

Moreover, the Italian government has reaffirmed its explicit support for the JSF program, and has confirmed the Italian participation to the System Development & Demonstration (SDD) phase.


(Signed)
Dr. Jack (J.G.) de Vries
State Secretary for Defence


Click here for the full letter to Parliament (in Dutch; 3 pages in PDF format) on the Dutch MoD website.


(EDITOR’S NOTE: Repeated attempts to contact the Italian Ministry of Defense on Oct. 7 and 8 were unsuccessful. We will update this item as warranted.)

(ends)
 
 
 
 The JSF, Italy and Europe
 
 
(Source: Alenia Aeronautica); issued Oct. 7, 2008)
 
   
 
 The [Rome-based] Institute for International Affairs presented the results of its research on the Italian and European participation in the F-35 program at a conference held yesterday in Rome. The Joint Strike Fighter is the fifth generation fighter intended to allow air forces to meet 21st century operational requirements, but also today’s largest aeronautical program, with potential sales running into the thousands.

Italy joined the program very early as a Tier II partner, just behind the United Kingdom, and is the candidate to host the only Final Assembly and Check-Out facility outside the US. In the past weeks Alenia Aeronautica signed the first contract for wing production, for which it will be the second source supplier with a potential run of 1,200 wings.

The importance of the JSF was underscored by the high-level attendance at the conference, which ranged from Undersecretary for Defence Giuseppe Cossiga, to the Chairman of the Defense Committee of the Italian Chamber of Representatives and the Chief of the Defense Staff Gen. Vincenzo Camporini, who spoke together with industry representatives Remo Pertica, Chairman of the Italian Aerospace and Defense Industries Association, and Giovanni Bertolone, CEO of Alenia Aeronautica.

The speakers all stressed that the research – coordinated for IAI by Michele Nones with Giovanni Gasparini and Alessandro Marrone and sponsored by Alenia – stands out for its rigorous methodology and objective approach. The IAI paper confirms the great operational value of the JSF, including its ability to operate away from its home base with minimal logistic support, but also highlights some of the positive and negative aspects of the program.

These include on one hand the technological progress (starting from netweork-centric capabilities and stealthiness) and great industrial potential; on the other hand, there are still some critical issues relating to transferring technologies (also related to industrial roles) and the bureaucracy which might make it difficult to ensure the timely flow of parts in an international program, but also to the need for European countries to increase their cooperation to increase their bargaining power.

The speakers underlined how all these aspects are crucial if Europe is to reap the opportunities that the Joint Strike Fighter program can offer Italy and Europe.

-ends-
 
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bi ... le=release
"[Os portugueses são]um povo tão dócil e tão bem amestrado que até merecia estar no Jardim Zoológico"
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Leonidas

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« Responder #163 em: Outubro 10, 2008, 01:34:46 am »
Ciao ragazzo

E não vai ficar por aqui!

Tchau ragazzo
 

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« Responder #164 em: Outubro 10, 2008, 08:18:56 am »
do mesmo link

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(UPDATE: EDITOR’S NOTE: A spokesman for the Italian National Armaments Director confirmed on Oct. 10 Italy's withdrawal from the IOT&E phase.)
"[Os portugueses são]um povo tão dócil e tão bem amestrado que até merecia estar no Jardim Zoológico"
-Dom Januário Torgal Ferreira, Bispo das Forças Armadas