Curioso estar-se a falar de cenários de alta intensidade, mas depois temos navios que na melhor das hipóteses são para baixa/média, cenário onde mencionaste a vantagem dos canhões de maior calibre... Afinal em que ficamos?Cada caso é um caso, e o nosso caso é que não ficávamos mal com todos os navios corridos a canhões de 76mm, mas havendo a possibilidade de ganhar em 2 das fragatas com canhão de 127, melhor ainda.
Mas ninguém quer os canhões de 127 nas EPC, são navios relativamente pequenos, íamos cometer o erro que os brasileiros fizeram com as Inhauma, com um canhão demasiado pesado para o navio. 127mm seria para as fragatas "high-end".Com esta conversa dos AB, todos estes esquemas tornar-se-iam redundantes.
Não esquecer a postura cada vez mais agressiva da Turquia, como por exemplo : https://www.naval.com.br/blog/2020/06/18/fragatas-turcas-travam-radar-de-direcao-de-tiro-em-navio-frances/Obviamente que se os nossos governantes mandassem na Grécia , entregavam a soberania do país à Turquia de mão beijada, em 5 minutos, isso também conta.
Citação de: LM em Outubro 20, 2020, 02:30:41 pmCitação de: JohnM em Outubro 20, 2020, 02:12:56 pmEu arriscaria que a versão portuguesa, a materializar-se, não será a versão de patrulha de longo alcance, porque não precisamos, e não será a versão topo de gama, porque não há pilim... eu arriscaria dizer que seria algo com um radar AESA relativamente básico (NS100?), um sonar ativo de casco, alguma capacidade de auto-defesa (8-16 ESSM 2) e AShM (4 ASM?)... se for assim, já não é mau... afinal já seria uma complexidade de cruzador..."Versão de patrulha de longo alcance" não é "mistura" de 2 das versões, a de patrulha (Itália e Espanha) e a de longo alcance (França)...? Eu desconfio que, considerando a francesa a versão "média", vai ser essa; mas as versões devem ter misseis europeus. Citarafinal já seria uma complexidade de cruzador A versão de patrulha de longo alcance tem depósitos de combustível e alojamento extra, bem como menos armamento, para substituir as Floréal nas províncias ultramarinas francesas no Índico e Pacífico... são basicamente OPVs sobredimensionados, como as Damen holandesas... Não precisamos disso...
Citação de: JohnM em Outubro 20, 2020, 02:12:56 pmEu arriscaria que a versão portuguesa, a materializar-se, não será a versão de patrulha de longo alcance, porque não precisamos, e não será a versão topo de gama, porque não há pilim... eu arriscaria dizer que seria algo com um radar AESA relativamente básico (NS100?), um sonar ativo de casco, alguma capacidade de auto-defesa (8-16 ESSM 2) e AShM (4 ASM?)... se for assim, já não é mau... afinal já seria uma complexidade de cruzador..."Versão de patrulha de longo alcance" não é "mistura" de 2 das versões, a de patrulha (Itália e Espanha) e a de longo alcance (França)...? Eu desconfio que, considerando a francesa a versão "média", vai ser essa; mas as versões devem ter misseis europeus. Citarafinal já seria uma complexidade de cruzador
Eu arriscaria que a versão portuguesa, a materializar-se, não será a versão de patrulha de longo alcance, porque não precisamos, e não será a versão topo de gama, porque não há pilim... eu arriscaria dizer que seria algo com um radar AESA relativamente básico (NS100?), um sonar ativo de casco, alguma capacidade de auto-defesa (8-16 ESSM 2) e AShM (4 ASM?)... se for assim, já não é mau... afinal já seria uma complexidade de cruzador...
afinal já seria uma complexidade de cruzador
replace the fleet of combatant and patrol OPVs of the Comandanti, Costellazioni I and II classes, while the second is to substitute at least four Serviola-class and two Infanta Elena-class OPVs. The version is expected to be optimized for ASuW/AAW (Self-Defence) missions, with provisions for limited ASW capabilities. The propulsion system is to have a CODLAD (Combined DieseL And Diesel) configuration ensuring a 24 knots maximum speed. France is however looking to replace the six Floreal-class light frigates with a Long-Range (LR) version ensuring long endurance (from 8,000 to 10,000 at 14 knots) to operate abroad for long periods. The platform is also to have a flexible propulsion plant (envisaged as CODLAD). The Greek Navy is looking for a higher speed version which is expected to feature a CODAD (COmbined Diesel And Diesel) propulsion configuration ensuring a maximum speed of 28 knots. The three navies versions will be different and customized according to the respective needs, emerged during the Defence iQ OPV International 2020 virtual conference. The Italian Navy is planning an 8-ships class with in-service date from 2027, while the French Navy is working on a 6-ships requirement and in-service date from 2030 to 2034. The Spanish Navy representative in his presentation about the service’s operational use and plans for OPVs, indicated a need for an unspecified number of OPVs to be replaced by 2023 onwards, which has been specified at an early stage in at least six ageing vessels.
The Spanish Navy is looking to a new generation of more capable OPVs to operate in more demanding operational scenarios, through the participation of the national industry to the PESCO European Patrol Corvette (EPC) programme. The Spanish Navy operates a fleet of OPVs consisting of six modern Meteoro-class platforms as well as a number of ageing vessels which need to be replaced, explained the head of the Canarian Islands Command, which operates four of the Meteoro-class OPVs, during the recent IQPC’s OPV International 2020 conference. Developed and built by Navantia to satisfy the Spanish Navy requirements, the fleet of six Buque de Acción Marítima (BAM) or Maritime Action Vessel, as the Meteoro-class OPV are identified by the service, entered into line between 2011 and 2019.In addition to elaborate the multipurpose and fully interoperable capabilities of this platform, which were demonstrated in a range of operations, in national, near and distant waters, the Spanish Navy’s representative gave also an hint on the future OPV-type platforms. The service has plans to replace in the near future at least four Serviola-class and two Infanta Elena-class OPVs since they are getting respectively into the 30 and 40 years of service. The Spanish Navy has already launched the conceptual development phase in close cooperation with the national industry to find a future solution that, using the BAM design as a starting point, is able to meet future operational requirements. In the medium-term however, in order to meet the Alliance Collective Defence needs, the Spanish Navy is also to develop a naval warship limited capabilities platform that, according to NATO standard, are fitted with more survivability and combat features than the current BAM.In this context, Spain decided to join the PESCO’s European Patrol Corvette programme last April. EDR On-Line understood that the joining of efforts between Navantia and the recently launched Naviris joint-venture between Fincantieri and Naval Group is deem as paramount for the Spanish Navy, as the latter is ready to start the transition to a new generation of more capable OPVs able to operate in more demanding situations. The Spanish Navy vision will shift from a maritime action vessel, which is the Buque de Acción Marítima (BAM), to a maritime protection platform, the Buque de Protección Marítima” (BPM). The rationale for this evolution is that despite her core missions will remain the maritime security operations in low intensity scenarios, the Buque de Protección Marítima” (BPM) will be able to join national or multinational task groups operating in high intensity scenarios, which means survivability must be assured against above water threats, said the Spanish Navy’s representative. The BPM will need to be able to accomplish more demanding tasks such as limited high value unit (HVU) escort (not including ASW), the contribution to extended self defence AAW, the protection of an MCM task group operating close to the shore, the participation to or the command of surface attack groups (SAG), the support of amphibious and forward deployed task forces and the launch and recovery of Special Operations Forces (SOF).
According to the presentation, the early design concept resembles an heavy armed corvette with a CODLAD configured propulsion and internal layout characterized by a modular area amidship, forward of the hangar structure. With a displacement of about 3,000 tons, a length and beam of respectively 107 and 14.4 meters, the design presents a hull and superstructures outlines with shark head-resembling bow covered area and superstructures with a single main mast (and secondary small communications mast), fixed fins amidship and twin shafts with variable pitch propellers and conventional rudders. According to Italian Navy representatives, the propulsion package is based on a CODLAD (COmbined Diesel eLectric And Diesel) configuration with two 8 MW each diesel engines and two electric motors, the latter for long-endurance low speed patrolling operations, in addition to an undisclosed number of gensets for electrical power.The maximum speed is set at 24 knots while on electric motors it reaches 11 knots, and the endurance is indicated in 4,000 nm at 14 knots. The ship features a stern flight deck and hangar to host a 10 tonnes NFH90 type helicopter and unmanned air vehicles. With accommodations for 115 persons with 85-90 crew elements, based on the missions required to be accomplished, including presence and surveillance, maritime interdiction operation, air and coastal defence, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, the early PPX design features a modular area forward of the hangar structure capable to accommodate 20’ standard containers which can be embarked on the flight deck and reach the modular bay through the hangar, according to the early design concept. A launch and recovery station for an organic 9 meters RHIB is positioned at the stern under the flight deck together with accommodations for a torpedo detection system, in addition to two 7.3 meters RHIBs stations amidship on the side of the modular bay.According to the images and information provided during the presentation, the combat system is expected to be based on the same CMS, sensors and weapon systems from Leonardo, MBDA and Elettronica, already under acquisition and installation on new ships for the Italian Navy, including the PPA, LHD and LSS. The platform management system is expected to be based on the same Fincantieri’s Seastema SeasNavy suite, already used on the latter vessels. A variant of the common SADOC 4 CMS will manage a suite of sensors centered on Leonardo’s Kronos Grand Naval 3D radar with IFF in addition to an air/surface surveillance radar and Leonardo SASS IRST together with a NA-30S Mk2 dual-band radar/EO-IR fire control system for the main gun alongside Leonardo Medusa Mk 4 FCS for smaller guns. The Leonardo underwater suite will include an obstacle alert sonar and a torpedo defence system. The RESM/CESM/RECM is expected to be a variant of the Elettronica integrate suite developed within the Legge Navale’s fleet renewal programme, in addition to a communication suite including software defined radios and tactical data link.The weapon package is to include up to two 8-cell A50 VLS for surface-to-air missiles for which, although not discussed during the presentation, EDR Online understood, a potential future candidate is the MBDA CAMM ER system, a Leonardo 76/62 Super Rapido main gun and two 25/80 mm remotely controlled guns, two Leonardo’s DLS 20 launchers for both AAW and torpedo decoys, non-lethal weapons, machine guns and provisions for two twin launchers for Teseo antiship missiles in addition to the NFH90 helicopter equipped with light-weight torpedoes.
In addition to the Patrouilleur d’Outre Mer (POM or Overseas Patrol Vessel) and the Patrouilleurs Océanique (PO) programmes, which replace respectively the P400-class patrol boats and the A69 type PHM (formely Aviso/light frigates )/Patrouilleurs de Service Public (PSP) or Flamant-class (OPV 54 class), with six circa 1,300 tonnes and 10 around 2,000 tonnes different platforms, the Marine Nationale joined the Italian Navy in the EPC programme to replace the six Floreal-class light frigates based overseas with the same number of new platforms. These will enter service between 2030 and 2034, as announced by the head officer of French Navy’s Protection and Safeguarding Office, Future Naval programmes, at the recent IQPC’s OPV International 2020 conference.As anticipated in the joint EPC programme introduction article the Marine Nationale is interested and is refining the Long-Range version design of the common EPC model to increase the autonomy from 8,000 (of the basic patrol design) to 10,000 nm in order to autonomously conduct long oceanic deployment. With a length of around 100 meters and a flight deck and hangar suitable for a medium size helicopter in addition to unmanned air vehicles, to accomplish the requested missions in distance theater of operations and in autonomy the French Navy’s representative has identified four main capability areas. The first regards the ability to withstand long-term solo deployments thanks to a flexible propulsion plant with a CODLAD (COmbined Diesel eLectric And Diesel) configuration and simple system architecture together with self-sustaining capability.The new platform will be able to perform ISR tasks and to be interoperable with allied Navies thanks to an information management capability provided by a combat management system (CMS) and a communication suite with SATCOM and tactical data links in addition to the use of airborne assets as remote sensors. The new platform will embark, operate and sustain the naval version of the new joint armed forces’ 7 tonnes Airbus H160M Guepard helicopter, currently under development, as well as rotary- and fixed-wing unmanned air vehicles: the SDAM (Système de Drones Aériens de la Marine) rotary-wing based platform with a 10 hours endurance at 100 nm and a 100 kg payload based on the VSR 700 (Guimbal Cabri G2 platform customized according to naval requirements) by Naval Group and Airbus Helicopters and the SMDM (Système de MiniDrone Marine) a 20 kg with sensors aircraft with a 5 hours endurance at 50 nm and a suite based on the Aliaca UAV from SurveyCopter.The French EPC will have self-defence capabilities, being able to face high-level asymmetrical threats thanks to a new self-defence weapon system, associated with an integrated asymmetric command and control system. The new self-defence weapon system has been identified for the first time by the French Navy’s representative as the Thales/Nexter RapidFire T40AA gun system. Although the French Navy’s representative hasn’t elaborated, EDR Online understood the weapon system has been selected under a procurement programme for a new self-defence weapon system which is to expected to arm different classes of vessels including the BRF (batiments ravitailleur del forces), PO and EPC platforms.