Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil

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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #750 em: Julho 07, 2014, 12:39:46 am »
https://www.youtube.com/user/HSMW/videos

"Tudo pela Nação, nada contra a Nação."
 

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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #752 em: Julho 07, 2014, 11:59:10 am »
Parece estar prestes a ficar resolvido.
Os rebeldes queixam-se de abandono por parte da Rússia.

T-64 rebelde destruído.


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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #753 em: Julho 07, 2014, 08:54:42 pm »
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/739357

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/739421

People’s militias in south-east Ukraine seize assault plane,anti-aircraft guns

World
July 07, 21:05 UTC+4
Earlier on Monday, the militia fighters were forced to retreat from Sloviansk, surrendering the town to the Ukrainian army

DONETSK/LUHANSK, July 07. /ITAR-TASS/. The self-defense forces of south-east Ukraine will now have its own assault aviation and anti-aircraft guns seized from the Ukrainian army.

Igor Plotnitsky, the defense minister of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic, said on Monday that the self-defense forces now had a Su-25 assault plane at their disposal.

“We seized a Su-25 plane from the Ukrainian army when it was making an emergency landing. It will be ready to go into battle again after minor repairs. The army of the Luhansk People’s Republic has got its own aviation,” Plotnitsky noted. He did not clarify where exactly the aircraft had been seized or from where it was going to take off after the repairs.

The Su-25 Frogfoot is an armored all-weather subsonic assault aircraft meant for supporting land troops day and night. The Su-25s have been operated since 1981.

In the meantime, anti-aircraft artillery guns have come into service with the army of the Donetsk People’s Republic. The residents of Donetsk said on Monday that they saw two trucks with fighters armed with anti-aircraft guns leaving in the direction of Karlivka village, the Petrovsky district, 20km away from Donetsk, a line of resistance with the Ukrainian army is running. People’s militias have set up checkpoints at all exits and entrances to Donetsk.

“It is possible to go in and out of the city. Checkpoints have been set up at all transportation arteries. However, they are not hindering the movement by civilians, including cars,” the press service of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic told ITAR-TASS on Monday.

“Shops, banks, enterprises and social service institutions are working in the routine mode. The situation in the city is calm. There is no panic in Donetsk. Many people who wanted to leave the city for fear of military hostilities in its territory have decided to stay,” the press service went on to say.

Earlier on Monday, the militia fighters were forced to retreat from Sloviansk, surrendering the town to the Ukrainian army.

According to the press service of the Donetsk People’s Republic, all men under 35 have been arrested in Sloviansk.
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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #754 em: Julho 09, 2014, 11:48:17 am »
Recaptura de Slovyansk e o relato do jornalista da Vice quando foi raptado pelos insurgentes e levou na corneta.

E o top 60 de mentiras russas contra a Ucrânia.
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-t ... ut-ukraine
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"Tudo pela Nação, nada contra a Nação."
 

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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #755 em: Julho 09, 2014, 10:56:28 pm »
Citação de: "HSMW"
E o top 60 de mentiras russas contra a Ucrânia.
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-t ... ut-ukraine

Em tempos de guerra todos mentem, americanos, russos, ucranianos.

Dou de barato que a maior parte das mentiras expostas aqui sejam de facto mentiras, no entanto, como costumo usar a RT como fonte de informação , dei-me ao trabalho de fazer uma rápida verificação para o caso da RT e o que encontrei foi SENSACIONALISMO BARATO de quem escreveu este artigo.

Diz o link da examiner sobre a RT (mentira 53)

53
Russia Today (RT) baselessly claimed that 400 U.S. mercenaries were deployed in Ukraine. In its irresponsible reporting, Russia Today referred to Blackwater and Academi interchangeably, claiming that the company’s personal was sent to Ukraine for a military operation. Academi strongly denied these allegations, stating that RT’s reporting was blatantly false, as the company had no personnel operating in Ukraine. Academi also pointed out that even basic fact-checking and accurate reporting would have been able to discern Blackwater from Academi.

a noticia da rt em causa é esta http://rt.com/news/158212-academi-black ... -military/

Antes de mais eu já sabia que não foi a RT que avançou com esta noticia ("soldados" americanos a operar na Ucrânia), mas sim os media alemães . Leiam por exemplo http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/u ... 68745.html.

O que a RT fez foi portanto dar protagonismo a uma reportagem dos media alemães, o artigo da examiner dizer que RT baselessly claimed- é FALSO.

O artigo da examiner aponta à RT na sua noticia de andar a mudar à vez a terminologia de Blackwater para Academi quando se lerem a noticia da RT com atenção diz logo no inicio - About 400 elite mercenaries from the notorious US private security firm Academi (formerly Blackwater) are taking part in the Ukrainian military operation against anti-government protesters in southeastern regions of the country, German media reports.

e se continuarem a ler com atenção a noticia da RT até ao fim vão ver que para cada atribuição há uma explicação. a rt faz um mini-historial da companhia. o artigo da examiner lançou areia para os olhos.

as falsas acusações da examiner a RT continuam -

Academi strongly denied these allegations, stating that RT’s reporting was blatantly false, as the company had no personnel operating in Ukraine. Academi also pointed out that even basic fact-checking and accurate reporting would have been able to discern Blackwater from Academi.

quando se pode ler na própria noticia da RT que o canal russo dá voz ao contraditório-
Academi denied its involvement in Ukraine, claiming on its website that “rumors” were posted by “some irresponsible bloggers and online reporters.” “Such unfounded statements combined with the lack of factual reporting to support them and the lack of context about the company, are nothing more than sensationalistic efforts to create hysteria and headlines in times of genuine crisis,” the US firm stated.


DE BRADAR AOS CÉUS

( A MENINA JULIA DAVIS ? QUE ESCREVEU ESTA PEÇA OU ANDA A ABRIR AS PERNAS AO CHEFE OU ESTAVA PRIVADA DE SONO E NÃO NA POSSE TOTAL DAS SUAS CAPACIDADES OU MESMO TALVEZ SOB EFEITO DE ESTUPEFACIENTES)

a noticia da rt na integra

400 US mercenaries 'deployed on ground' in Ukraine military op
Published time: May 11, 2014 15:04
Edited time: May 12, 2014 21:59

About 400 elite mercenaries from the notorious US private security firm Academi (formerly Blackwater) are taking part in the Ukrainian military operation against anti-government protesters in southeastern regions of the country, German media reports.

The Bild am Sonntag newspaper, citing a source in intelligence circles, wrote Sunday that Academi employees are involved in the Kiev military crackdown on pro-autonomy activists in near the town of Slavyansk, in the Donetsk region.

On April 29, German Intelligence Service (BND) informed Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government about the mercenaries’ participation in the operation, the paper said, RIA Novosti reported. It is not clear who commands the private military contractors and pays for their services, however.

In March, media reports appeared suggesting that the coup-imposed government in Kiev could have employed up to 300 mercenaries.That was before the new government launched a military operation against anti-Maidan activists, or “terrorists” as Kiev put it, in southeast Ukraine.

At the time, the Russian Foreign Ministry said then that reports claiming Kiev was planning to involve “involve staff from foreign military companies to ‘ensure the rule of law,’” could suggest that it wanted “to suppress civil protests and dissatisfaction.”

In particular, Greystone Limited, which is currently registered in Barbados and is a part of Academi Corporation, is a candidate for such a gendarme role. It is a similar and probably an affiliated structure of the Blackwater private army, whose staff have been accused of cruel and systematic violations of human rights in various trouble spots on many occasions.

“Among the candidates for the role of gendarme is the Barbados-registered company Greystone Limited, which is integrated with the Academi corporation,” the Foreign Ministry said in a statement. “It is an analogue, and, probably and affiliated body of the Blackwater private army, whose employees have repeatedly been accused of committing grievous and systematic human rights abuses in different troubled regions.”

Allegations increased further after unverified videos appeared on YouTube of unidentified armed men in the streets of Donetsk, the capital of the country’s industrial and coalmining region. In those videos, onlookers can be heard shouting “Mercenaries!”“Blackwater!,” and “Who are you going to shoot at?”

Academi denied its involvement in Ukraine, claiming on its website that “rumors” were posted by “some irresponsible bloggers and online reporters.”

“Such unfounded statements combined with the lack of factual reporting to support them and the lack of context about the company, are nothing more than sensationalistic efforts to create hysteria and headlines in times of genuine crisis,” the US firm stated.

The American security company Blackwater gained worldwide notoriety for the substantial role it played in the Iraq war as a contractor for the US government. In recent years it has changed its name twice – in 2009 it was renamed Xe Services and in 2011 it got its current name, Academi.

The firm became infamous for the alleged September 16, 2007 killing of 17 Iraqi civilians in Baghdad. The attack, which saw 20 others wounded, was allegedly without justification and in violation of deadly-force rules that pertained to American security contractors in Iraq at the time. Between 2005 and September 2007, Blackwater security guards were involved in at least 195 shooting incidents in Iraq and fired first in 163 of those cases, a Congressional report said at the time.
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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #756 em: Julho 10, 2014, 09:47:17 am »
http://valdaiclub.com/politics/70060.html

Russia’s Geo-Political Dilemmas

10:07 10/07/2014

LANE, David

The advent of Vladimir Putin to political power in the Russian Federation led to a new climate both in Russia and in world politics. While Putin has had widespread support at home, difficulties have been experienced abroad. Western media have interpreted Putin’s policy in terms of a renewal of the ‘Soviet threat’ to the West. They claim that this is manifested in a revived nationalistic, authoritarian Russia fortified by its natural resources, a large land army and nuclear weapons. Leading Western, and particularly American, writers and pundits have labelled the Russian leadership as ‘nostalgic for imperial status’ (Z. Brzezinski), seeking a ‘revival of Russian imperialism’.  Russia is portrayed as an economic and military threat to the West. This is summed up by the cover of The Economist which, on 13 December 2006,  portrayed a picture of a trilbyed Vladimir Putin totting a petrol pump as a light machine gun, with the caption, ‘Don’t Mess with Russia’.  These views cannot be ignored as the Western media has captured the public mind set. As Castells has put it: ‘What does not exist in the media does not exist in the public mind’ .

However, such observations are one-sided, alarmist and create a negative atmosphere of distrust towards the Russian Federation. The policy of the current Russian leadership has been essentially reactive and restitutive. It might be interpreted as ‘assertive’. But such assertiveness has not been hostile to Western powers or even to international capitalism. It has sought to reinstate some of the things lost when socialism was dismantled and to restore respect - which Russia expects as a major European power.

Understanding of political reality has to be rooted in the political and economic consequences of the transformation from communism, which seriously weakened the economic and social well-being of the post-socialist states, as well as their ideological and political orientation.

The Footprint of Transformation

One of the major policies underpinning reforms in, and later the transformation of, the socialist bloc was a movement towards, and participation in, the world economic system. Mikhail Gorbachev’s intention was for the USSR to ‘rejoin its European home’. This led to the reunification of Germany within NATO and the departure of Soviet troops from the German Democratic Republic which weakened Russia’s strategic defence. Boris Eltsin’s objective was to ensure that Russia would be a full and accepted member of the economically advanced capitalist community. Initially, to demonstrate its commitment to international political cooperation and distance itself from the previous Soviet confrontational stance, Eltsin’s policy accepted American leadership.  Russia supported the USA over Libya and Iraq, and UN sanctions against Yugoslavia. Russia joined the IMF and other international organisations, such as the Council of Europe.  A process of privatisation, marketisation and democratisation followed prescriptions formulated by the West, particularly the USA.

However, Eltsin’s overtures were not reciprocated by the West. While the Treaty of Rome provided that any European country could apply for membership of the European Economic Community (and later the European Union defined the conditions for membership), it became clear that the Central European States as well as the former Soviet states in the Baltic were favoured to become members, while Russia was not. Russia was regarded as an unstable political state, only partially economically ‘reformed’ and with military potential. Despite assurances given by US Secretary of State, James Baker to Gorbachev on 8/9 February 1990, that there would be ‘No extension of NATO’s jurisdiction for forces of NATO one inch to the east’,  such expansion occurred to include the post communist states of Central Europe and the Baltic which also joined the European Union.

Before Vladimir Putin came to power, Russia had lost out on the post-Soviet settlement. The socialist political and economic alliances (Warsaw Pact and Comecom) were disbanded and their previous commercial and economic networks were dismantled. Whereas NATO and the European Union were strengthened and enlarged. Moreover, Russia’s move to open markets globally, a private-property market economy and competitive electoral politics did not lead to the economic and political advances anticipated. Privatisation involved the theft of public property on a vast scale accompanied by rampant corruption. The anticipated ‘creative destruction’ of state socialism resulted in demolition of the former Soviet Union’s manufacturing industry and research capacity, but not in the promised renewal and innovation. Failures in electoral democracy led to widespread disenchantment among elites and people. While the population had expected pluralistic capitalism to lead to significant improvement in well-being, the result was economic decline, gross inequality and moral decay. Russia was widely regarded, domestically as well as abroad, as a failed state.

An assumption of many advocates of entry to the world economy, both before and after the fall of state socialism, is that participation benefits all. What is lacking in these accounts is recognition that the world economy is composed of rich and poor states, economically advanced and economically backward, militarily powerful and politically weak. Economically, evidence suggests that market-led globalisation leads the core countries to extend their lead and keep to themselves research, design and development, finance; their ownership of intellectual and physical property rises. Their economic power is a necessary condition of their political hegemony.

The peripheral states act as manufacturing sub-contractors, as well providing primary and secondary products; they experience an outflow of profits and labour in return for FDI and manufactured products.  Neo-liberalism severely weakens the nation state which loses its ability to provide welfare to its impoverished population and economic support to its own companies. Russia joined this second group of states.

President Putin’s Policies

When Vladimir Putin came to power as President in 2000, the economic, political, international and moral standing of the Russian Federation could not have been lower. What precipitated the forceful policies adopted by the Putin political elite was the abject failure of transformation, orchestrated on Western principles and Western advice, to fulfil popular expectations. The political leadership sought to change Russian policy both domestically and in foreign affairs. The intention was to re-establish Russia as a major world power.

President Putin sought: to establish the internal authority of the Federal government in Russia over the regions and over the political and economic elites – this gave rise to an authoritarian style of leadership; to create a new moral ethos and political ideology which would legitimate a politically-led economy – Eurasianism was adopted as a philosophy; to rebuild the economy through the transfer of energy wealth to strategic industries, science and research – these measures took the form of a national state-led capitalism; to restore citizens beliefs in Russia as a moral order – Russia was portrayed as a vibrant ‘civilization’; and to restore the Russian Federation as a world power worthy of respect in foreign affairs – this has led to a critique of American hegemony.

Policy entailed a major change towards the West which infringed some established Western interests.  In its Foreign Policy Concept (2000), Russia’s objectives were to preserve the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the country. It noted critically ‘a growing trend towards the establishment of a unipolar structure of the world with the economic and political domination of the United States.’   It identified ‘attempts to create an international relations structure based on domination by developed Western countries in the international community, under US leadership and designed for unilateral solutions (including the use of military force) to key issues in world politics in circumvention of the fundamental rules of international law’ .

The emphasis on national sovereignty reversed globalisation trends which have seriously weakened the powers of nation states.  Consequently the interests of global companies with headquarters based in Western countries (particularly in the USA) are circumscribed.  Unlike in the new post-socialist member states of the European Union, in Russia the role of transnational companies has been limited.  

Russia is not incorporated into the neo-liberal world system, as its economy has a high level of state ownership, and foreign companies have relatively little penetration. (Its transnationality index is below the average for developed and developing economies). Russia’s military and political elites are not integrated into the international organisations led by the Western hegemonic states. This is in contrast to the elites of the Central European post communist new member states who are incorporated, economically and politically, in the European Union and militarily in NATO.

What is the Russian Challenge?

The strengthening of the regulatory power of the state in Russia is a challenge to American political hegemony and could be regarded as a hostile ‘threat’ to American interests. It provides an alternative form of politics and an ideology which challenges neo-liberal policies guiding the dominant Western powers and the type of globalisation operating under the hegemony of the USA.

Many nations on the periphery, when confronted with the economic, political and military power of the core states, have little alternative but to accede to their policies. But countries such as Russia (and including Brazil, India, and China) have more options than assumed by those who envisage a ‘one world’ economy. There is divergence as well as convergence in the world economy. The economies of many countries have production which is local in character, and regional companies and political actors have considerable scope for action independently of the global economy.

The articulation of a national state-led model of development is the key to understanding why Putin’s policy is distorted and opposed in the West, particularly by the neo-liberal press.  Any moves to strengthen the geo-political position of Russia is interpreted as a menace irrespective of the merits of the case.  Russia does not have the resources to pose a serious economic or military ‘threat’ to the West. What is being established is a challenge to the hegemony of the USA and its neo-liberal order. Unlike the early reformers, such as Gorbachev and Eltsin, who sought to move closer to, and to develop a positive image of, ‘the West’, Putin has defined the USA and its hegemony as ‘the other’, as something not to be emulated.

The Russian leadership has articulated an empowering ideology to those who oppose the West’s neo-liberal hegemony. But policy does not entail autarchy or exclusion; for example, Russia under Putin has jointed the World Trade Organisation. The country is also open to foreign direct investment which keeps it exposed to the world economy. The current political leadership offers a critique and an alternative, phrased in terms of a corporate state and economy, and predicated on national sovereignty. Russia has no inherent propensity to expand aggressively either militarily or economically. In the light of its post-communist past its recent history has been reactive and defensive.  Its intervention in Crimea, for example, should be interpreted as securing its geo-political interests in the face of possible future NATO expansion. The objective is a more pluralistic world order.

Why Putin and his associates are regarded so disapprovingly by many politicians and journalists is because they challenge the universality of the version of capitalist globalisation and electoral democracy advocated academically, and pursued politically, by the agents of the West. ‘Sovereign democracy’ is an ideological and political challenge to the Western notion of ‘global democracy’. Putin’s policy of strengthening a form of national capitalism presents an alternative, a model which already has an affinity with China, and has a resonance with countries such as India, and Latin America. It might also appeal to others in the West seeking to retain more powers for the nation state – as a depository of democracy and economic regulation, which is widely regarded as being undermined by interests benefitting from political and economic neo-liberal globalisation.

David Lane is an Emeritus Fellow of Emmanuel College at the University of Cambridge.

This article was originally published in Hungrian in Voci VB2014, Debatte (Budapest, Hungary).
"All the world's a stage" William Shakespeare

 

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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #757 em: Julho 10, 2014, 11:32:17 am »
Citar
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-60-lies-about-ukraine

Não é nada que qualquer pessoa que conseguisse passar por cima do lixo informativo dos prostitutos russos não tivesse já percebido.


Mas mais nojento, mais porco, mais seboso que a propaganda porca da Russia Fascista, são os dois ou três putos energumenos que de forma debochada nos serviram este chorrilho de mentiras como se fossem verdades absolutas.

Há um destes putos, que chegou ao ponto de se referir às jornalistas russas do RT, com afirmações da qualidade e do profissionalismo da estação.

Fica mais que provado que as profissionais do RT, são boas profissionais, mas da profissão que tinham nas esquinas antes de serem contratadas para a televisão ...


Deixo também expresso o meu desagrado, pelo facto de muitas das mentiras dos jornais russos, terem aqui sido desmontadas e referidas por mim.
Em resposta a canalhada do costume insultou-me e chamou-me de mentiroso.
Eu sei que num fórum de discussão, discute-se, mas as nojentas acusaçoes dos três ou quatro criançolas da esquerda caviar deveriam ter tido repercussões.

Se num fórum de discussão, quem tenta explicar, argumentar com dados lógicos e objetivos, é colocado ao mesmo nível de quem vende propaganda barata e mentiras que são óbvias, então deixa de haver fórum de discussão.


Há anos atrás, por muitíssimo menos que as afirmações de dois ou três participantes, um utilizador chamado Rui Elias (entre outros) foi suspenso. Agora, pode-se publicar à vontade as mentiras comprovadas da Máfia russa, insultar quem as coloca em causa e nada acontece.
É muito mais fácil enganar uma pessoa, que explicar-lhe que foi enganada ...
Contra a Estupidez, não temos defesa
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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #758 em: Julho 10, 2014, 12:30:07 pm »
O papatango confunde dias do mes com horas, lembra-se ? ou quer que va buscar o link desse topico para a rapaziada do forum se rir? ( dou-lhe desconto, a idade a fazer das suas...)

 Nao basta dizer que as coisas sao mentira para elas serem mentira, especialmente quando vem da sua boca.

Desmontei uma mentira da examiner sobre uma reportagem da RT. A jornalista da examiner nesse caso especifico subverteu completamente os factos.  O papatango diz que a RT mente mas nao consegue desmontar as mentiras. Ou sera que consegue? De exemplos.

CUIDADO COM OS CLICHES DOS MEDIA OCIDENTAIS CONTRA A RUSSIA. ANTES DE SERMOS BORREGOS E OBRIGACAO NOSSA PROCURAR SEMPRE O OUTRO LADO DA NARRATIVA E CONFRONTA-LA COM OUTRAS FONTES E A NOSSA EXPERIENCIA
"All the world's a stage" William Shakespeare

 
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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #759 em: Julho 10, 2014, 05:22:17 pm »
http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/213010.html

478 civilians killed, 1,392 injured in eastern Ukraine – Health Ministry

15:30 10.07.2014

As many as 478 civilians have been killed and 1,392 more injured in the area of the anti-terrorist operation (ATO) in eastern Ukraine, the Ukrainian Health Ministry has reported.

"I can say that 1,392 people, including 104 women and 14 children, have been injured," Deputy Health Minister Vasyl Lazoryshynets said at a press conference in Kyiv on Thursday.

"478 were killed. They include 30 women and seven children. These are civilians," he added.

According to the ministry, 279 people are undergoing treatment in medical institutions.
"All the world's a stage" William Shakespeare

 

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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #760 em: Julho 10, 2014, 08:43:28 pm »
Esta situação do "Existe ou não existe mercenários americanos na Ucraniana" faz me lembrar o "Comical Ali",e o que eu ria com o ex ministro da "Propaganda" de Saddam.  :twisted:
 




E como eu não ofendo ninguém pelo que até agora ninguém me ofendeu vamos ao que interessa (aviso novamente que publico as noticias e quanto a credibilidade cabe aos utilizadores do forum que já são grandinhos, avaliarem as fontes e cruzarem os dados com outras publicações) :http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/ukraine/

Citar
Photo: Heavy smoke seen between train station and airport in Donetsk, Ukraine, as gunshots and clashes are reported in the area

Citar
European Union governments add 11 new names to Ukraine sanctions list

Citar
Ukrainian pilot charged with aiding murder
Nadezhda Savchenko, captured by rebels last month, charged in Russia with abetting murder of two Russian journalists.
http://www.aljazeera.com/category/country/ukraine

Citar
Recapture of Ukrainian city 'a turning point'
Ukraine president urges forces to "liberate Donetsk and Luhansk regions" after capture of Slovyansk from separatists.
Portanto, aparentemente está a decorrer a ofensiva final sobre os Separatistas Pró-Russos. Entretanto a questão do Piloto Ucraniano é mais uma situação que certamente fará correr muita tinta nos próximos dias entre a Rússia e a Ucrânia.

Cumprimentos e respeitosos debates
"Nunca, no campo dos conflitos humanos, tantos deveram tanto a tão poucos." W.Churchil

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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #762 em: Julho 10, 2014, 11:02:17 pm »
O problema, é que utilizar como fontes, a imprensa obscena debochada e pornográfica da Russia fascista, é em si mesmo um insulto à inteligência.

Para analizarmos a II guerra mundial, por exemplo, nós não vamos ler os jornais oficiais do Partido Nazi, que todos os dias diziam que o III Reich tinha ganho uma batalha, mas estranhamente, as batalhas eram ganhas cada vez mais perto de Berlim...

Querer confrontar teses é uma coisa, utilizar a propaganda absolutamente clara e absolutamente mentirosa da imprensa russa seria fazer exactamente o contrário disso.

Não há imprensa livre na Russia como não havia no tempo do Estaline e como não havia na Alemanha nazi.
Se não há imprensa livre na Russia e se 99% de tudo o que a russaiada disse se provou ser mentira, como é que ainda há gente que tem o descaramente e a retinta pouca vergonha de falar no RT, como uma fonte confiável de notícias ?

A situação é tão vergonhosa que até eu tenho que admitir que só nos últimos dias percebi ao ponto a que as coisas tinham realmente chegado.
E eu sou critico e desconfiado sobre o que os russos dizem...
E mesmo assim acreditei em para aí 20% do que eles disseram.

Afinal nem esses 25% que eu considerava como notícias crediveis, ainda que dadas de um prisma russo, o que explicava o tendenciosismo eram verdade.

De uma ponta à outra, do principio ao fim, tudo o que a imprensa russa disse sobre as operações na Crimeia e sobre a Ucrânia ERA MENTIRA, meia verdade ou invenção pura e simples.


Andámos aqui a discutir as noticias falsas da imprensa russa, e quem criticava a pouca vergonha era criticado e acusado de manipulador por três gatos pingados que não fazem mais nada que andar em alguns forums e blogs a vomitar as mesmas sandices obscenas.


É preciso desmascarar estes grupelhos de putos (no sentido brasileiro) que por aí andam a insultar quem está interessado na verdade.




O que devemos perguntar, é porque é que os muitos Bagdad-Bob's russos conseguiram ter credibilidade...

Provavelmente a resposta está no facto de haver tantas profissionais na televisão russa.
Só não são é profissionais da informação.  :mrgreen:
Desviaram a atenção das pessoas para outros atributos, e eu devo admitir que também caí na armadilha.
É muito mais fácil enganar uma pessoa, que explicar-lhe que foi enganada ...
Contra a Estupidez, não temos defesa
https://shorturl.at/bdusk
 

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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #763 em: Julho 11, 2014, 01:06:13 am »
"All the world's a stage" William Shakespeare

 

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Re: Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil
« Responder #764 em: Julho 11, 2014, 09:36:32 am »
A Guide to Ukraine's Fighting Forces

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine ... 55556.html
"All the world's a stage" William Shakespeare