Israel vs Hezbollah no Libano

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Lightning

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« Responder #165 em: Julho 20, 2006, 11:49:53 pm »
Não acredito, isso parece tácticas estilo comunista (vaga humana, etc), e vindo dos Israelitas acho muito improvável, logo eles que são tão orgulhosos do excelente treino que tem as suas forças.
E um pais como Israel não se pode dar ao luxo de perder muitos homens visto ter uma população que ronda pouco mais de 6 milhões, é por isso que dá tanta importancia à qualidade em deterimento da quantidade e as guerras que travaram acabaram todas depressa.
 

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othelo

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« Responder #166 em: Julho 21, 2006, 03:36:06 am »
NVF
dou-lhe razão na chamada de atenção que fez, mas razão parcial, e isto porque, ambas as organizações se entreajudam e mantem laços estreitos de coperação, o ideal politico deles é básicamente o mesmo, os combatentes chegam a saltar de um lado para o outro.
por estas e outras razões poderam quase ser considerados um movimento quase unico, com um objectivo comum (digam eles publicamente o que diserem) que é a eliminação do estado de Israel.

Mas isto é como dizes, "Opiniões...todos tem uma"
Olho por Olho, Dente por Dente
 

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Marauder

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« Responder #167 em: Julho 21, 2006, 08:28:14 am »
Citação de: "ricardonunes"

Embora não se saiba qual o nº de baixas por parte do Hezbollah, não será este um nº bastante elevado, tendo em consideração que a ofensiva terrestre começou ontem.
Nas imagens transmitidas na TV, e o comentário jornalistico, referia que as tropas que estão na frente de combate são bastante novas e que estão muito nervosas, deu para perceber a dificuldade que tiveram para retirar um ferido do campo de batalha, e depois a reacção dos oficiais com os jornalistas aquando da chegada do ferido num merkava.
Será esta uma nova estrategia de Israel para combater o Hezbollah, envia militares novos e inexperientes para os cansar, para depois enviar as tropas de elite? :cry:

A tank and an armored bulldozer were destroyed by rocket-propelled grenades, the IDF said.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/ ... index.html

Mais 1 morto e 3 feridos dos 2 Apache que chocaram..

E...
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Exército libanês participa nos combates em caso de invasão
O ministro libanês da Defesa, Elias Murr, afirmou quinta-feira à noite que o exército libanês vai participar nos combates se Israel invadir o Líbano depois dos seus bombardeamentos aéreos massivos do país.

«O exército libanês vai resistir e defender o país e vai provar que se trata de um exército digno de respeito», afirmou Murr numa entrevista transmitida pela televisão.

«O equilíbrio de forças está a mudar e se existir um início de invasão do Líbano estamos à espera deles«, acrescentou.

«Temos hoje um exército libanês que decidiu defender a sua terra e a união do sangue é a mais forte que as confissões, as religiões ou as doutrinas», afirmou ainda Elias Murr.

O exército libanês manteve-se à margem durante a invasão israelita do Líbano, em 1982, então mergulhado numa guerra civil e regional.

Após a retirada israelita do Líbano Sul em Maio de 2000, depois de 22 anos de ocupação, o Líbano, apesar dos apelos da comunidade internacional, não distribuiu as suas tropas ao longo da fronteira com Israel, controlada pelos combatentes do Hezbollah xiita, que beneficia do apoio de Damasco e Teerão.

Desde o início da ofensiva israelita, a 12 de Julho, pelo menos 23 militares libaneses, entre os quais quatro oficiais, foram mortos e 80 outros ficaram feridos em raids aéreos israelitas que visaram duas casernas do exército e bases navais e marítimas nas diferentes regiões do Líbano.

Diário Digital / Lusa

21-07-2006 2:46:00

de:
http://diariodigital.sapo.pt/news.asp?s ... ews=236971

Hum..se isto passar para um real conflicto entre Líbano e Israel, qual a posição da Liga Árabe e dos restantes países face a isto...uma coisa é fechar os olhos quando israel ataca Hezbollah, mas um conflicto entre Líbano e Israel, poderá ter reacções de outros países da região..
 

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ricardonunes

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« Responder #168 em: Julho 21, 2006, 09:21:57 am »
Syria watches and waits
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Thousands of protesters have thronged the streets of central Damascus to wave Syrian and Hezbollah flags and shout their support for Hassan Nasrallah, the Lebanese Shia group's leader.


Monday's state-organised protest is the first large-scale  demonstration in Syria since Israeli and Hezbollah began attacking each other last Tuesday.

But elsewhere in the Syrian capital, there are few indications that the country could soon bear the brunt of Israel's firepower.

Shops and cafes are as bustling as ever and the capital's hotels still brim with thousands of Lebanese nationals and foreign tourists - including many who have fled from Beirut over the past three or four days.

Yet, with the conflict in Lebanon continuing to intensify, some speculate that the conflict might soon spill over into Syria, which supports Hezbollah and also hosts armed Palestinian groups including Hamas.

Andrew Tabler, a Damascus-based fellow at the Institute of Current World Affairs and a consultant editor of Syria Today magazine says that many Israelis want to see Syria punished for supporting Hezbollah and Hamas.

"Many people in Israel, as well as the US, believe that Syria acts as a conduit for weapons and supplies to reach Hezbollah," he told Aljazeera.net

"This is one reason why Israel could decide to raise the pressure on Syria by striking localised infrastructure, such as power stations or key roads," he said.

Regional war
 

Hezbollah's close links with Iran have also raised fears that Israeli strikes against Lebanon could broaden into a much wider regional conflict.

Although Iran is internationally isolated, many think it could potentially create chaos in the region through other groups like the Islamic Jihad and pro-Iranian Shia militias in Iraq which it funds, trains and arms.

And experts say that Syria's reach cannot be under-estimated either.

Although Syria's military is under-funded, ill-equipped and badly-trained, Damascus can also upset US ambitions in the region, for instance by helping Arab Sunni jihadists to fight the US in Iraq.

"Israel would be making a grave strategic mistake if it attacked Syria," Umran Zaaby, a lawyer and political analyst in Damascus told Aljazeera.net.
 

"Syria is not Lebanon. It is not a weak state and has allies in the region who can ensure that Israel, and the US, will find themselves in an even bigger dilemma than they do now."

"Iran has the power to ensure that the American project in Iraq fails for good," Zaaby said.

"It can also threaten to cut off energy supplies and send oil prices sky-high. Israel might have the strongest military power, but power is not just about the military"

Tough talk

The Syrian government has promised to defend itself against any Israeli attack.

"Any aggression against Syria will have a firm and direct response"

Mohsen Bilal, the Syrian minister of information
 
"Any aggression against Syria will have a firm and direct response not limited in time or means," said Mohsen Bilal, the Syrian minister of information, in an official statement on Sunday.  

Bashar al-Assad, the Syrian president, meanwhile, said that he would put the "full resources" of his country at Lebanon's disposal.

To win support around the Arab world, Syria has also tried to portray itself as the only defender of the Lebanese and Palestinians.

State-owned daily, Tishreen, has loudly criticised the Israeli attacks and what it termed a "shameful silence" from other Arab countries.

The newspaper's editorial on Saturday said that Israel, with the backing of the US, was trying to "re-draw the regional map."

Already, two Syrian workers have died in the Israeli bombing of Lebanon. They were caught in Israeli air strikes in the southern suburbs of Beirut, the Syrian state news agency SANA reported on Saturday.

Rumoured ultimatums

Israel has so far not publicly threatened Syria. However, the Arab media has reported that Israel has secretly issued an ultimatum to President Assad.

On Saturday, pan-Arab daily al-Hayat said that Israel, with US backing, had given Syria 72 hours to pressure Hezbollah into releasing two captured Israeli soldiers and ceasing cross-border attacks into northern Israel.

“We’re on alert now across the country and have to prepare for the worst"

Abdul Rahman Attar, president of the Syrian Red Crescent
 

US officials in Washington have neither confirmed nor denied the report.

But so far, Iran and Syria have kept a low-profile in the conflict, and are trying to avoid further escalation.

A rocket salvo fired at a Lebanese-Syrian border crossing on Saturday was initially believed to have strayed into Syrian territory. But within just minutes, both Israeli and Syrian military statements confirmed that only Lebanese targets had been hit.

Waiting game

Syrian officials might be treading carefully to avoid provoking an Israeli strike; but ordinary Syrians watching the conflict in neighbouring Lebanon find their emotions veering between concern and defiance.

In Saiyida Zainab, a predominantly Shia town and pilgrimage site, 25km south of Damascus, about 150 protesters gathered on Saturday night to wave yellow Hezbollah flags and banners, chanting their support.  
 

And when news channels reported that Hezbollah had badly damaged an Israeli warship off the Lebanese coast on Saturday, small convoys of cars drove around the Syrian capital, honking horns and banging drums.

Others, though, are regarding the situation with more anxiety.
 
Abdul Rahman Attar, president of the Syrian Red Crescent organisation, told Aljazeera.net that "we're on alert now across the country and have to prepare for the worst."


Aljazeera
Potius mori quam foedari
 

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Azraael

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« Responder #169 em: Julho 21, 2006, 03:55:13 pm »
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Hezbollah rejeita plano de tréguas de Kofi Annan


O Hezbollah rejeitou hoje o plano do secretário-geral das Nações Unidas Kofi Annan, que propõe o fim imediato das hostilidades e a libertação dos dois soldados israelitas, declarou hoje à AFP Hussein Hajj Hassan, deputado da formação xiita.

"É normal que recusemos o plano", afirmou. "A única coisa que nós aceitamos é um cessar-fogo incondicional, seguido de negociações directas sobre a troca de prisioneiros".

Kofi Annan pediu ontem o "fim imediato das hostilidades" no Líbano, propondo uma regulação do conflito que incluia a libertação dos soldados israelitas, uma conferência internacional e uma força de estabilização no sul do Líbano. O plano estipulava ainda o desarmamento de todas as milícias islamistas, incluindo o Hezbollah.

"O senhor Annan faria melhor em pôr fim ao massacre de civis e em ir rever todas as resoluções do Conselho de Segurança que não foram aplicadas por Israel, antes de pedir a aplicação da 1559" (o número da recomendação que pede o desarmamento do Hezbollah), afirmou o deputado xiita. "O secretário-geral do Conselho de Segurança toma o partido de Israel", acusou.

Já morreram 336 pessoas no Líbano desde o início da ofensiva, no dia 12 de Julho. Do lado israelita, 33 israelitas - 18 dos quais militares e 15 civis - já perderam a vida.



http://www.publico.clix.pt/shownews.asp?id=1264746&idCanal=15
 

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Azraael

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« Responder #170 em: Julho 21, 2006, 04:03:24 pm »
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Israel Calls Up Reserves, a Sign of Wider Ground Raids

 Israel called up a few thousand reservists today, in possible preparation for a more extensive ground operation in southern Lebanon, as its warplanes continued to hit targets there and to drop leaflets warning residents of villages to leave their homes and head northward.

Over the last two days, there has been an increase in ground clashes as Israeli troops have moved about a mile or so inside Lebanon to demolish Hezbollah outposts and fortifications. Four Israeli soldiers were killed in fierce battles with Hezbollah guerrillas north of Avivim on Thursday, the Israeli army said. On Wednesday, two Israeli soldiers were killed in the same area, as Israel discovered a warren of storage rooms, bunkers and tunnels near Maroun al-Ras.

Hezbollah said it has lost three fighters, but the Israelis say scores of Hezbollah fighters have died. Israel also said two of its Apache helicopters collided near the Lebanese border, killing a pilot and injuring three crewmen.

All day today, the 10th day of the conflict, Israeli jets continued to drop bombs, hitting Beirut’s Shiite districts, the eastern Bekaa Valley and southern Lebanon and striking the Mdeirej bridge on the main Beirut-Damascus highway four more times; it had already been bombed twice.

Five people were killed and 15 wounded in the bombings, according to Agence France-Presse. In all, more than 330 people have been killed by the Israeli air, sea and ground barrage of bombs and rockets throughout Lebanon.

Also today, a new wave of Hezbollah rockets hit Haifa and other towns in northern Israel. At least 10 people were wounded when one missile hit a Haifa apartment building.

Israel continued to warn residents of southern Lebanon to leave their homes if they are in areas of Hezbollah activity

As the Israeli defense minister, Amir Peretz, visited northern towns hit by scores of Hezbollah rockets on Thursday, he hinted at a broader ground operation. “We have no intention of occupying Lebanon, but we also have no intention of retreating from any military measures needed,” he said. “Hezbollah must not think that we would recoil from using all kinds of military measures against it.”

Mr. Peretz continued, “You can mark one thing down: Hezbollah flags will not hang over the fences of Israel.”

The Israeli assault is meant to break Hezbollah’s military capacity and decapitate its leadership. But its leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, appeared on television late on Thursday in an interview with Al Jazeera, taunting the Israeli forces and vowing that he would release two abducted Israeli soldiers only in exchange for Lebanese prisoners held in Israel.

“Even the whole universe would not be able to secure the release of the two Israeli soldiers unless there are indirect negotiations and an exchange of prisoners,” he said. “All of Israel’s claims to have hit half of our missile potential and arsenal are nothing but erroneous words. The leadership of Hezbollah has not been touched.”

Lebanon’s prime minister, Fuad Siniora, who has appealed desperately for help from the international community, said that no settlement was in sight to end the violence. He accused the United States of giving Israel a green light to bomb Lebanon.

“The United States is allowing Israel to pursue its aggression,” he told Agence France-Presse.

Lebanon’s defense minister, Elias Murr, said on Thursday that the Lebanese Army — which has so far remained on the sidelines — would go into battle if Israel invaded. “The Lebanese army will resist and defend the country and prove that it is an army worthy of respect,” he said.

On Thursday in New York, Kofi Annan, the secretary general of the United Nations, called for an immediate ceasefire and spoke of the human suffering caused by the offensive, which has displaced hundreds of thousands of Lebanese from their homes.

He proposed that Hezbollah release the two soldiers, that attacks by both sides be halted and that an international peacekeeping force be deployed. And he condemned the Israeli operation as an “excessive use of force.”

Russia, which reduced parts of Chechnya to rubble in its fight against rebels there, also sharply criticized Israel: the Russian Foreign Ministry called Israel’s actions in Lebanon “far beyond the boundaries of an antiterrorist operation” and urged a cease-fire.

At the White House, President Bush’s press secretary, Tony Snow, said, “I’m not sure at this juncture we’re going to step in and put up a stop sign,” although he called on Israel to “practice restraint” and said Mr. Bush was “very much concerned” about a growing human crisis in southern Lebanon.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is arranging a trip to Asia and the Middle East; she could be visiting this region as early as Sunday.

Diplomats are investigating the idea of creating a more robust international peacekeeping force than the current, largely ineffectual Unifil force, which has occupied a narrow strip along the Lebanese-Israeli border for decades. The new force would be under United Nations auspices, but made up largely of European troops, and would help the weak Lebanese government move its army to the Israeli border and push back a weakened Hezbollah.

About 4,500 Americans were preparing to leave today, with the help of United States Marines who landed in Beirut on Thursday.

The small force of American marines who landed in Beirut on Thursday were the first to be deployed in Lebanon in any numbers since 1983, when a Hezbollah suicide bomb attack killed 241 Americans, mostly marines, in a Beirut barracks, prompting the withdrawal of American forces sent as peacekeepers after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. The marines who landed Thursday were from the same unit that was attacked in the barracks 23 years ago.

Lt. Cmdr. Charlie Brown of the United States Naval Central Command in Bahrain said that about 40 marines from the unit, the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit, anded on a beach north of Beirut Thursday morning near the grounds of the American Embassy. They helped American citizens board a landing craft that ferried them to the amphibious assault ship Nashville, waiting offshore.

By late afternoon, 1,052 evacuees had boarded the Nashville and the ship was preparing to head to Cyprus, Commander Brown said.

Citizens of Britain and other countries were also evacuated.

On Thursday, Israel continued its large-scale air attacks on Hezbollah positions and equipment. It also leafleted southern Lebanese villages, made taped phone calls, informed local leaders and broadcast messages in Arabic to warn residents to move north of the Litani River if their villages contained Hezbollah assets or rockets, but gave no deadline.

Israel dropped similar leaflets on Thursday in Gaza as well, possibly foreshadowing more attacks on populated areas where Israel believes Hamas is storing Qassam rockets.

The air attacks on Thursday also hit Beirut’s southern suburbs, following Wednesday night’s heavy attack by Israeli jets, using special burrowing bombs, to try to penetrate a bunker believed to be used by senior Hezbollah officials, including its leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah. Hezbollah said no one had been hurt in the bombing, which Israeli officials said had involved 23 tons of explosives in the Burj al Brajneh neighborhood.

Despite the continuous shelling of the Hezbollah strongholds of southern Beirut, the militia remains very much in control there, barring access to outsiders.

On Thursday, the militia led reporters on a tour of the area, where Hezbollah’s headquarters are. Buildings as high as 12 or 15 stories had collapsed; some were still smoking.

According to Lebanese reports, four civilians were killed in a strike on a car in the coastal city of Tyre. Israeli jets also attacked a detention center in the town of Khiam in south Lebanon on Thursday, according to local television reports. The prison, formerly run by Israel’s Lebanese militia allies during its occupation of south Lebanon, was destroyed.

Israeli planes also struck at Shiite areas in the eastern towns of Baalbek and Hermil, where some Hezbollah leaders are said to live, and several southern villages.

About 50 rockets hit Israel on Thursday, the Israeli Army said, a sharp drop from 150 the day before.

The Israeli military said two of its helicopters had collided Thursday night near the border with Lebanon; one pilot died and three crewmen were injured.

In Gaza, Israel continued its military operation in the central sector, killing at least three Palestinians and wounding six in fighting around the Mughazi refugee camp. An airstrike on the same refugee camp killed one fighter and wounded eight more. One of the dead was a Palestinian girl, 10, wounded in an airstrike on Wednesday, when nine Palestinians, eight of them militants, were killed, according to The Associated Press.

The Israeli Army dropped the leaflets Thursday throughout Gaza warning that “anyone who has, or is keeping an arsenal, ammunitions or weapons in their house must destroy it or will face dangerous consequences.”

On the West Bank, Israeli forces continued to surround the Mukata compound in Nablus, where Palestinians wanted by Israel have been taking refuge since Wednesday morning. About 15 wanted men gave themselves up but at least 10 remain inside. Tanks fired five shells at the buildings and army bulldozers worked to knock down the exterior walls, while warning those inside to come out or risk being buried underneath the rubble.

Israeli troops fired rubber-coated bullets at Palestinians who demonstrated against the troops, wounding five, one seriously, Palestinian medics said. About 4,000 Palestinians demonstrated in Nablus in support of Hezbollah, calling on the militia’s leader, Sheik Nasrallah, to attack Israel with rockets.

“Nasrallah, our dearest, strike, strike Tel Aviv!” the Palestinians shouted. Five Palestinians were killed in the Nablus operation on Wednesday.

The Lebanese government said it had so far sheltered as many as 120,000 refugees, mostly in schools. It is considering setting up tents and temporary barracks in public parks and sports fields. The United Nations estimates that a total of 500,000 people have been displaced.

“The losses are immeasurable,” said Nayla Moawad, the Lebanese minister for social affairs.

Ms. Moawad blamed Syria for setting off the crisis, saying that she was expressing her personal opinion. “The decision of the Hezbollah operation was not taken in Lebanon,” she said. “Lebanon was taken a hostage, a mailbox of other people’s interests. It has been taken in Damascus, probably with an Iranian coordination.”

Ms. Moawad was one of the leaders of the Lebanese revolt last year that led to the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon.

“Syria has tried to destabilize Lebanon since her troops pulled out,” she said.



http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/21/world/middleeast/21cnd-mide.html?hp&ex=1153540800&en=2a6dbe655bda96a4&ei=5094&partner=homepage
 

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Azraael

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« Responder #171 em: Julho 21, 2006, 04:07:42 pm »
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Despite Ties to Hamas, Militants Aren’t Following Political Leaders


Five men in black hoods emerged from a dimly lighted street of stark concrete houses and garbage-strewn lots. With Israeli drones buzzing overhead, they kept the meeting short.

“We ask America to stop supporting the Israeli aggressors,” said the leader, who carried a new Czech-made Kalashnikov rifle while another shouldered a new Gaza-made rocket-propelled grenade launcher. After 20 minutes, they grew visibly nervous and disappeared into the shadows.

The men are members of the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, the well-armed, highly organized military wing of Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic movement that now governs the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Members of the militia led last month’s raid in which they killed two Israeli soldiers and captured another, setting off the current crisis.

Despite its links to the Palestinian government, Palestinian and Israeli analysts say, the Qassam Brigades does not take orders from the governing leaders of Hamas. This is why, according to many accounts, the Hamas-led government itself was surprised by the Qassam Brigades’ attack against the Israeli military post in June.

“They lost their position as leaders of Hamas when they joined the government,” said Abu Muhammad, a Qassam Brigades field commander in Jabaliya. “New leaders were named in the movement, and they are more senior than the government leaders, even Haniya,” he said, referring to the Palestinian prime minister, Ismail Haniya.

Giora Eiland, a former director of Israel’s national security council and a retired major general who led an investigation into the June 25 raid, agreed. “Recently there was the illusion that Hamas, while not a perfect partner, was at least a group that could implement decisions,” he said. “But it has become apparent that the political leadership of Hamas is much less influential than Khaled Meshal and leaders of the military wing.” Mr. Meshal is the chairman of Hamas’s political bureau and lives in exile in Damascus, Syria.

The Qassam Brigades is the Palestinians’ largest and best organized militant group but it is not the only militia operating in the area under Palestinian control. At least six other armed groups field soldiers to fight Israel or, when there are no Israelis to fight — as was the case for nine months after Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza last year — to fight among themselves.

The current crisis seems to have pushed the militias to join ranks. Several of the militia members said the groups organized a “joint operations room” when Israel began threatening to invade Gaza two or three weeks ago. By all accounts the operations room is more virtual than real, but spokesmen for three of the groups insisted that senior political and military leaders of the seven militias now communicated regularly to plan actions.

“We are more united now than at any time before,” said Abu Mujahed, spokesman for the Salahadin Brigades, the armed wing of another anti-Israeli movement, the Popular Resistance Committees.

Abu Muhammad, the Jabaliya field commander, said the Qassam Brigades was in charge of the operations room because it was “the backbone of the resistance.” Nightly operations are mapped out, and a password is agreed upon for fighters of different factions to identify themselves in the field.

“When two groups meet each other and both are masked, the password identifies them so we know they are not Israeli agents,” Abu Muhammad said in his sitting room lined with overstuffed armchairs, the only light coming from a slender taper fixed to the coffee table.

He said scouts were posted on the edges of Gaza and the outskirts of towns to watch for raids by Israeli forces. “If they see something, they send the information back up the line to the joint operations room and it broadcasts it to all the groups,” Abu Muhammad said. “Special forces cannot enter Gaza easily.”

It is difficult to say how many Palestinians are members of armed groups. Israeli intelligence officials say there are probably as many as 20,000 hard-core members of the various factions, most of which are in the Gaza Strip. But including freelancers who join in when the fighting picks up, intelligence officials say, the militias’ forces outnumber the 35,000 members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.

Israeli intelligence officials say the leadership of Hamas, previously split between Gaza and Syria, consolidated in Damascus after the assassinations of Hamas’s charismatic leaders, Sheik Ahmed Yassin and Abdel Aziz Rantisi in 2004. Two months ago, General Eiland said, Hamas military leaders appeared to gain the upper hand.

According to the accounts of Israeli intelligence officers and senior Hamas officials, the influence of Hamas leaders in Gaza weakened further after they joined the Palestinian Authority in the wake of parliamentary elections early this year.

The Qassam Brigades, which is believed to have received money from Saudi Arabia until recently and now from Iran, grew in the 1990’s as a counterweight to the Aksa Martyrs Brigades of the Fatah movement, then led by Yasir Arafat.

Capt. Jacob Dallal, an Israeli Army spokesman, said that in the past few years Hezbollah had also helped underwrite some Palestinian groups and had provided technological skills.

To become a member of the Qassam Brigades, Abu Muhammad said, a person must first join Hamas. The movement accepts only people who demonstrate Islamic piety, who do not smoke and who pray five times a day, not something that all young people can manage, he said. Hamas investigates the background and relations of all prospective members before indoctrinating them into the culture of strict obedience. Only then can they join the military wing.

Abu Muhammad, now 37, said he joined Hamas during the first intifada in the late 1980’s and became a member of the Qassam Brigades six year ago. “I started as a common soldier and after three years became a commander,” he said. Like all Qassam members, he gives part of his income to the militia.

As field commander, he distributes arms and ammunition to the men under his command. The Qassam Brigades smuggles in weapons to the territory when it can, but it has developed a substantial munitions industry that makes everything from rockets to antitank mines. “If I need something, I requisition it,” he said.

The Qassam Brigades’ members say they do not have any Katyusha rockets, but they claim to have extended the reach of their Qassams, putting the Israeli city of Ashkelon and its roughly 100,000 inhabitants within range. Most of the weapons, including antitank mines, are made in Gaza. The handle of the group’s grenade launchers are stamped “Al Yassin,” in honor of their late leader.

Many of the smaller militias now follow the Qassam Brigades’ classic cell structure, in which few people know more than their immediate superior and subordinates. Abu Muhammad, a short man with wire-rimmed glasses and a short, dark beard, described the organization from his point of view.

“I’m a field commander and I’m responsible for eight groups of five men each,” he said. “No group knows the others and I don’t deal with the fighters, only the commanders of each of the eight groups.”

He said he did not know how many layers were between him and the senior leadership. But Israeli intelligence officials say that while the organization is broad, it is not very deep, which is why the army focuses on targeted assassinations of militia leaders. They say there are only a few layers between field commanders like Abu Muhammad and the top commander, Muhammad Deif.

Below Mr. Deif there are several regional commanders, including Ahmad al-Ghandur, the Qassam Brigades commander in Jabaliya and the northern Gaza Strip. Both Mr. Deif and Mr. Ghandur are believed to have been seriously wounded in an F-16 missile attack earlier this month. Abu Muhammad is probably one or two rungs below Mr. Ghandur, the intelligence officials said.

The Qassam Brigades is well financed; many members carry new weapons and ammunition vests. Despite the well-equipped Palestinian Authority security forces in Gaza, the new Hamas government prefers to use a contingent of Qassam Brigades fighters for protection.

The militia members use radios because they do not trust telephones, speaking in code for less than 30 seconds at a time to keep the Israelis from pinpointing their location.

On a visit to a cell arranged for a reporter, Abu Muhammad moves to an intersection on the edge of town and the masked men appear. The group’s leader, Abu Ahmed, is a thickset man of 44, a carpenter, the father of six boys and a girl. He has been a member of Hamas for 10 years and joined the Qassam Brigades four years ago.

Like most of the people in Jabaliya, his family fled their homes around Ashkelon during the fighting of 1948 that followed the creation of the state of Israel.

“My family is from Sawafeer,” he said, adding bitterly, “The Jews changed the name to Shafir.”

Besides the routine patrols he said the group sometimes had “specific operations with mines and RPG’s against tanks.” If fighters plant a mine, he said, they watch it until it is detonated, or they take it away. He said they were among the Qassam Brigades fighters who fought back against an Israeli raid into Jabaliya in October 2004.

They wear masks to hide their identity from possible collaborators in their midst and from Israeli intelligence in battle, fearing that if they are identified, they could be assassinated later. Each squad operates in a well-defined geographic area, usually tied to where its members live.

Shortly after the five men merged back into the night, a sharp explosion split the air.



http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/21/world/middleeast/21gaza.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
 

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Azraael

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« Responder #172 em: Julho 21, 2006, 05:28:17 pm »
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The arms that keep Hezbollah fighting

    
The arms that keep Hezbollah fighting
By Jason Motlagh

Nearly a quarter-century after Israeli forces pummeled Beirut to the hellish crescendo of an explosion every three seconds, a rebuilt capital crumbles one artillery strike at a time as Israel seeks to wipe out the enemy it spawned.

Israeli officials have stated in no uncertain terms their intent to bomb the radical Shi'ite movement Hezbollah into submission and "change the equation" to end further missile attacks over the border.

But Hezbollah today bristles with a weapons inventory far beyond the suicide tactics used in the 1983 bombing of the US Embassy

and marine barracks a year later that first minted its name in terror.

Western intelligence officials and experts say the Iran-sponsored militants have stockpiled enough firepower to sustain a protracted fight against the Jewish state that, while asymmetrical, threatens all of northern Israel and possibly much further.

Katyusha rockets, the longtime staple of Hezbollah's arsenal, have rained down on Israel at the consistent rate of about 100 per day since fighting erupted on July 12 after its kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers over the border. It is estimated that militants have between 10,000 and 12,000 Katyushas, of which roughly 3% have been used to date. If Hezbollah kept up the current volume of its barrages, fighting could go on until early October, John Pike, director of military studies group GlobalSecurity.org, told Asia Times Online.

Unfortunately, this bleak outlook is shared by both Israel and Hezbollah. Israeli army chief of staff Dan Halutz projected in an address to Israel Defense Forces this week that the military campaign in Lebanon "may continue for an extended period of time".

Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah, the target of 23 tonnes' worth of Israeli bombs on Wednesday, told Al-Jazeera television that Hezbollah would not surrender the abducted Israeli troops "even if the whole universe comes [against us]", without a prisoner exchange. Other reports indicate he soon intends to order "hundreds" of long-range missiles to be fired at Tel Aviv - a move Israeli officials insist would spell doomsday not only for Hezbollah, but for benefactors Iran and Syria.

Military analysts are uncertain as to the extent of Hezbollah's mid- and long-range missile stocks, but most concur with Israeli intelligence that they include the Iranian-made Fajr-3, with a 45-kilometer range, and maybe the 200km Zelzal, which in theory could reach as far as Tel Aviv.

New evidence of Hezbollah's upgraded operational capacity came in the form of a crippling strike on an Israeli warship on July 14, attributed to a radar-guided C-802 missile of Iranian origin. This has prompted some Israeli officials and military officers to trumpet fresh justification for a preemptive move against Iran, whose president has famously called for Israel's erasure from the map of the Middle East.

However, questions linger over Iran's role in the latest crisis. "It's hard to tell if the current festivities are driven by internal, local considerations peculiar to Hezbollah or are manifestations of [Iranian President Mahmud] Ahmadinejad's grand strategy," Pike said, stressing that whatever the reality was, the situation was inherently fluid and subject to change.

Encouraging Hezbollah action as Iran's frontline arm against Israel could work in Iran's favor without major backlash, he said, pending the strategy succeeds in mobilizing the Arab and Muslim worlds against a common enemy for a later showdown.

It's no secret that Tehran's material support for Hezbollah has continued ever since it founded the movement in 1982 to oust Israel from Lebanon. Iran remains as keen as ever to export its Shi'ite Islamic revolution further afield, some would argue, to lay the groundwork for a fated apocalypse.

But the mullahocracy today provides aid and arms to the tune of $25 million to $50 million a year, according to GlobalSecurity.org, much less than the hundreds of millions prior reports have claimed.

Charges that advisers from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) have increased their presence in Lebanon are also under dispute. Significant numbers of IRGC personnel have traveled to the region in years past, yet the "days of IRGC-led training camps in Lebanon seem to be over", Anthony Cordesman, a strategy expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, DC, said in a report released on Tuesday. "Until there are hard facts, Iran's role in all of this is a matter of speculation," he wrote.

As for assertions that Hezbollah has received upgraded weapons technologies and long-range rockets from Iran to stir trouble in the Mideast at Tehran's behest, Cordesman contends they are "best guess" estimates, arguing that Hezbollah uses Iran "as much as it is used".

Experts do agree that despite the poor accuracy of Hezbollah's short-range missiles, which can seldom be relied on for more than a "lucky strike" on target, they are still effective.

Short-range Hezbollah missiles are almost impossible to overcome by Israel's advanced missile defenses because of their minimal trajectory. And recent launches against the northern port city of Haifa demonstrate that sporadic, random strikes can paralyze urban populations. According to Pike, even if Hezbollah cuts back rocket launches from 100 a day to 10 every other day to preserve stockpiles as time wears on, they would have in large part succeeded. "It's not so much the fact that Israelis are killed," he said, "but that the fear of being killed is sown."

Hezbollah's use of southern Lebanon as a staging ground for mortar and rocket attacks against Israeli military outposts and civilian areas has kept Israel off balance since 1982, a status quo it wants to end by relentless bombardment.

This has entailed strikes on Hezbollah's primary headquarters in southern Beirut to cut off communications links - with unprecedented civilian collateral damage. But recent cases in Iraq and Afghanistan show that air campaigns are doomed to fail unless they are backed by full-fledged ground forces, a strategy Israel is loath to employ after an 18-year Lebanon occupation that bled them out of the country.

Still, limited numbers of Israeli special forces have already made incursions into southern Lebanon to root out militants and destroy hidden weapons caches/launchers.

Israeli military planners wanted to carve out space to pave the way for larger ground forces, the New York Times reported on Thursday. They are also trying to "create enough pain on the ground so there would be a local political reaction to Hezbollah's adventurism", Edward P Djererian, former US ambassador to both Israel and Syria, told the Times.

Gun battles raged along the border on Thursday, with Israel warning residents of the region to flee "immediately" in an apparent signal a ground offensive to secure a buffer zone draws nearer.

But as infrastructure is shattered and the death toll mounts - 330 Lebanese killed, mostly civilians, and more than half a million displaced as of Thursday night - the grassroots population will be progressively less inclined to throw their weight behind moves to rein in Hezbollah.

Iran, lurking in the shadows, stands to benefit the longer Hezbollah intransigence can hold out. Its gift of short-range weapons has enabled Tehran to wage a survivable proxy fight, coordinated or not, that distracts international attention from its underground nuclear activities.

Meanwhile, Hezbollah "shows the Arab and Muslim world that Iran is a government willing to strike at the Israeli enemy - even though it is not Arab or Sunni", Cordesman noted. "Israel's reprisals ... make it seem in Arab and Muslim eyes as if Iran supports 'freedom fighters'."

Hezbollah's Nasrallah recently declared that Israel had created "a historic opportunity to score a defeat against the Zionist enemy". Taken literally, this is absurd; in a symbolic sense, there lies a heavy grain of truth.



http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG22Ak03.html
 

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Lightning

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« Responder #173 em: Julho 21, 2006, 06:04:38 pm »
Israel pode ser um dos melhores exércitos do mundo mas os males que afectam os outros exércitos também os afectam a eles, uma coisa é combater com um outro exército, pessoal fardado, agrupado em grupos organizados (batalhões,etc) em quarteis e bases, e por aí adiante, outra coisa é combater milicias e/ou guerrilheiros que andam em bandos semi-organizados, vestidos à civil, a disparar rockets de telhados de apartamentos.
Bem se sabe que qualquer pais vizinho de Israel que ataque Israel fica com as suas forças armadas reduzidas a pó num dia ou dois, agora para destruir movimentos terroristas é bem mais dificil porque se misturam com a população, bem vemos os Americanos no Iraque.
 

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Jorge Pereira

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« Responder #174 em: Julho 21, 2006, 11:21:56 pm »
Na minha opinião este conflito foi nitidamente “encomendado” pela Irão coadjuvado pela Síria.

As operações em que foram sequestrados os soldados israelitas poderiam simplesmente terem-se saldado pela morte dos mesmos, a não ser que o objectivo fosse (e era) capturar os soldados para como é habitual no povo judeu em «não deixar ninguém ficar para trás», provocar uma reacção israelita que, “apimentada” com ataques inéditos e bem coordenados contra cidades do interior de Israel, só poderia ser contundente. Está reacção contundente de Israel criaria um conflito na região que provocaria um desgaste na opinião pública internacional e retiraria qualquer margem de manobra política para o lançamento de uma ofensiva militar contra o Irão pela continuação do seu programa nuclear.

Não podemos esquecer que Israel já tinha iniciado um plano de paz ambicioso (iniciado por Ariel Sharon) que inevitavelmente levaria à liberdade a maior parte dos prisioneiros que o Hezbollah e sobretudo o Hamas dizem querer trocar pelos soldados israelitas. Como tal, a teoria de que o sequestro dos soldados israelitas tinha por objectivo a sua troca por outros prisioneiros na posse de Israel, cai por terra.

O Líbano por outro lado não tem capacidade para se impor ou desarmar o Hezbollah, que recebe entre 300 a 500 milhões de dólares por ano do Irão e tem a retaguarda protegida pela Síria.

A sua população está a pagar, infelizmente, um preço elevado pela atitude miserável do Hezbollah em ocultar armas e operacionais no meio de instalações civis. Ainda ontem um canal britânico mostrava o que restava de 4 rampas de lançamento de mísseis montadas sobre camiões, que Israel acabara de destruir, em pleno centro de um bairro cristão de Beirute.  

Não são os israelitas que estão atingir civis, pelo menos directamente, é o próprio Hezbollah que os utiliza como garante da segurança do seu armamento (a maior parte dele oculto em instalações civis) e dos seus próprios operacionais.


Provavelmente Israel será forçado a lançar uma ofensiva terrestre com vista a eliminar os objectivos (entre 40% a 50% dos mísseis do Hezbollah estão ainda “intactos” segundo fontes de inteligência israelitas) que sobreviveram à campanha aérea.

Entretanto o programa nuclear iraniano prossegue na máxima velocidade, ao coberto de uma “nuvem de pó” que os dois últimos e mais perigosos cancros do médio oriente souberam de forma quase eximia levantar; Os governos do Irão e da Síria.

Isto faz-me acreditar cada vez mais nas palavras que foram tornadas públicas de um agente dos serviços secretos alemães: «é uma questão de meses para que o Irão possua a sua primeira bomba atómica» Eles os “meses” estão a consegui-los. Se conseguirem o resto será uma tragédia para a humanidade, não tenham dúvidas.
Um dos primeiros erros do mundo moderno é presumir, profunda e tacitamente, que as coisas passadas se tornaram impossíveis.

Gilbert Chesterton, in 'O Que Há de Errado com o Mundo'






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RedWarrior

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« Responder #175 em: Julho 22, 2006, 12:27:31 am »
A primeira vítima de todas as guerras é a verdade
 

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Azraael

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« Responder #176 em: Julho 22, 2006, 01:00:46 am »
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Secretary Rice Holds a News Conference

RICE: Good afternoon.

This Sunday, I will travel to Israel and the Palestinian territories, where I will meet with Prime Minister Olmert and his leadership and with President Abbas and his team.

I will also travel to Rome, where I will meet with the Lebanon core group.

The countries of the Lebanon core group form a key contact group that can help the Lebanese government to address the political, economic and security challenges that it faces.

Today I want to speak briefly about what I seek to accomplish on this trip, and then I'd be happy to take your questions, of course.

It is important to remember that the cause of the current violence was Hezbollah's illegal attack from Lebanese territory. It is unacceptable to have a situation where the decision of a terrorist group can drag an entire country, even an entire region, into violence.

In response to Hezbollah's outrageous provocation in an already tense region, the United States joined with the G-8 countries in an important declaration in St. Petersburg. Arab nations, led by Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan, have been critical of this provocation as well.

The United Nations and the European Union have, of course, sent missions to the region.

Today the United States renews its call for the immediate release of the abducted Israeli soldiers. And as Israel exercises the right of any sovereign nation to defend itself, we urge Israel's leaders to do so with the greatest possible care to avoid harming innocent civilians and with care to protect civilian infrastructure.

RICE: We are working tirelessly to help ease the plight of all innocent people who are suffering from violence, Lebanese, Israeli and Palestinian.

I was pleased to hear that the Israeli government has responded positively to the proposal of the United States and other countries to open humanitarian corridors into Lebanon which will allow the international community to deliver much-needed assistance to the Lebanese people.

At next week's meeting of the core group and in the weeks that follow, we will continue working with our partners to provide immediate humanitarian relief to the people of Lebanon. That will be a focus of our efforts. And the United States plans to contribute direct humanitarian assistance to Lebanon.

We do seek an end to the current violence, and we seek it urgently. More than that, we also seek to address the root causes of that violence so that a real and endurable peace can be established.

A cease-fire would be a false promise if it simply returns us to the status quo, allowing terrorists to launch attacks at the time and terms of their choosing and to threat innocent people, Arab and Israeli, throughout the region. That would be a guarantee of future violence.

Instead, we must be more effective and more ambitious than that. We must work urgently to create the conditions for stability and lasting peace.

I've just come from New York, where I met with Kofi Annan and received an assessment from the U.N. team that has just returned from the Middle East.

The G-8 statement of July 16 and the U.N. Security Council Resolutions 425, 1559 and 1680 represent an international consensus that guides our diplomatic efforts to help Lebanon's young democracy make progress along three tracks: political, economic and security.

The broad framework includes, of course, the deployment of the Lebanese armed forces to all parts of the country and full international support for the efforts of the Lebanese government to exert its sovereign authority over all of its territory.

Lebanon will have a delegation, we expect, at the core group meeting.

RICE: And I am in constant consultations with Prime Minister Siniora about how best the international community can support his government.

The goal of my trip is to work with our partners to help create conditions that can lead to a lasting and sustainable end to the violence.

Yet, as I prepare to depart for the Middle East, I know that there are no answers that are easy, nor are there any quick fixes.

I fully expect that the diplomatic work for peace will be difficult. But President Bush and I are committed to that work.

Before I take your questions, let me say one more thing.

I would like to thank and commend the personnel of the State Department, the Defense Department and other U.S. government agencies who are helping to lead the successful and ongoing departure of our citizens from Lebanon.

Despite the difficulty of moving people by sea and despite the need to take extensive security preparations, we have mounted in one week the largest operation of any one country.

By tomorrow, we expect to have helped more than 10,000 Americans to reach safety. This is one of the largest and most complex operations of its kind since World War II.

Of course, more work remains to be done. But I am confident that the men and women of the U.S. government are more than equal to that challenge.

And now I'll take your questions.

QUESTION: Madam Secretary, you said the United States and the world need to be more effective and ambitious than to seek a quick cease-fire. Can you be effective and ambitious in helping to guide a solution here if you are not talking to either Syria or Hezbollah?

RICE: First of all, Syria knows what it needs to do, and Hezbollah is the source of the problem.

The issue here is that in Resolution 1559 and ever since the world has spoken to the need of Lebanon to be able to function as a sovereign government without the interference of foreign powers.

That's why Syrian forces were told to leave Lebanon.

The resolutions have insisted that the government of Lebanon needs to be able to extend its authority over all of its territory. And you can't have a situation in which the south of Lebanon is a haven for unauthorized, armed groups that sit and fire rockets into Israel, plunging the entire country into chaos, when the Lebanese government did not even know that this was going to be done.

RICE: Now, the Lebanese government has disavowed what happened.

The government of Siniora is a good and young democratic government. But the extremists of Hezbollah have put that government at risk and have brought misery to the region.

Any cease-fire cannot allow that condition to remain. Because I can guarantee you, if you simply look for a cease-fire that acknowledges and freezes the status quo ante, we will be back here in six months again or in five months or in nine months or in a year trying to get another cease-fire because Hezbollah will have decided yet again to try and use southern Lebanon as a sanctuary to fire against Israel.

So when I say that we really must have this time a commitment to what was understood in 1559 to be a need to get Lebanese forces south, to get control of that territory so that it can be used in this way, that is, I think, the core of a political framework that would permit a sustainable cease-fire.

QUESTION: Madam Secretary, are you concerned that it looks like Israel is going to be launching a ground invasion -- a larger cross- ground operation than we might have expected?

RICE: Well, I'm clearly not going to speculate on something that is just speculation.

The Israelis have said that they have no desire to widen this conflict. And I take them at their word that they have no desire to widen this conflict.

There is a political framework and a political solution that could both stop the violence and leave Lebanon and the region in a much better place so that this doesn't happen again. And I think that's what we have to pursue.

And let me just say, when I say that an immediate cease-fire without political conditions does not make sense, I don't mean that this isn't urgent. It is, indeed, urgent.

QUESTION: When you talk about supporting the Lebanese government but also eliminating the threat posed by Hezbollah, Hezbollah is not only a security threat in the region, it's also a political party and it has ministers in the cabinet, members of parliament.

How do you suppose that the political track will be worked out? Is this the end of Hezbollah in the country, or do you see a future political role for Hezbollah when this is all worked out on the security front?


RICE: Clearly, Hezbollah, in its political role, did not act very responsibly if, indeed, Hezbollah went without the authority of the Lebanese government, violated every conceivable international norm -- not to mention a number of international U.N. Security Council resolutions -- and didn't bother to tell the members of the Lebanese government.

RICE: So, obviously, they didn't act in a responsible way in their political cloak.

And I think that has to be said. And it points to the problem that 1559 anticipated of having groups within the political process that have one foot in terror and one foot in politics. It's not sustainable over the long run. But I think the immediate problem is to get back into a political framework that can allow Lebanon to start to reassert its sovereignty.

QUESTION: Madam Secretary, you've heard the voices saying you should have -- the last several days saying you should go to the region. I'm wondering why you chose now to announce this trip and to go.

And secondly, would the United States be willing to contribute troops, that is boots on the ground, to an international peacekeeping force on the Lebanese border?


RICE: We are looking at what kind of international assistance force makes sense, but I do not think that it is anticipated that U.S. ground forces are expected for that force.

As to the timing of this, look, yes, I could have gotten on a plane and rushed over and started shuttling, and it wouldn't have been clear what I was shuttling to do. We have now had a series of discussions with our -- first at the G-8. I've been in constant contact with others, including with the Egyptians here a couple of days ago. We have been in contact with the Siniora government. Of course, I have been in constant contact with the Israeli government. And then I was just at the U.N.

I think we are beginning to see the outlines of a political framework that might allow the cessation of violence in a more sustainable way, tied to 1559, tied to what is there in the G-8 statement. The elements are becoming quite clear.

But I have no interest in diplomacy for the sake of returning Lebanon and Israel to the status quo ante. I think it would be a mistake.

What we're seeing here, in a sense, is the growing -- the birth pangs of a new Middle East.

RICE: And whatever we do, we have to be certain that we are pushing forward to the new Middle East, not going back to the old one.

QUESTION: Madam Secretary, as you mentioned, a key element of Resolution 1559 calls for the dismantling of terrorist militia groups inside Lebanon by the sovereign authority of that government.

What have you heard from your discussions with the Lebanese that would explain why they have made so little progress on that up to now? And what you think would change in the next week or two in the political framework that would allow them to make progress on that?


RICE: Clearly, this is a young government that does not have the capacity to do everything that was anticipated in 1559. That's just the case.

What we have to do is to help create a framework in which, first of all, the end to the violence would push forward the sovereignty of the Lebanese government and the deployment of Lebanese forces southward with some kind of international assistance -- perhaps significant international assistance. And then we have to continue to work with this government on the political front.

But what I said in answer to an earlier question is that it is now clear why 1559 anticipates a circumstance in which you cannot have people with one foot in politics and one foot in terror, because that Hezbollah sitting within the Lebanese government -- as ministers within the Lebanese government would launch an attack without the knowledge of the Lebanese government that then plunged the Lebanese people into the circumstances that they are, unfortunately, now in says why 1559 has wisdom.

But we will work on a political framework to help the Lebanese to fulfill those terms.

QUESTION: Can you just characterize your discussions with the Lebanese, similar to the way you have done, say, with the Iraqis when you say, "This is a determined government that knows what it needs to do"? Can you speak to what the Lebanese feel their mission is here vis-a-vis Hezbollah?

RICE: I believe that this is a very good government. This is a fine prime minister. And he is in circumstances that are enormously difficult right now, and he's showing great leadership of his people and great courage in leading his people in these very difficult times.

RICE: It is a complicated political situation in Lebanon. That will surprise no one. And I'm not going to characterize my conversations with the prime minister about how we get out of these complex situations.

I think he has a very strong interest in the humanitarian situation. We've been talking about that. And, indeed, we've been working with the Israelis to, first, get air and sea corridors open, now to talk about further humanitarian corridors that might be opened, to get assistance to the Lebanese people and to begin to discuss a political framework that would allow the fulfillment of Resolution 1559.

But I'm not going to characterize those discussions.

QUESTION: Madam Secretary, since you don't talk to Hezbollah or Syria, can you talk about any of your allies that you have been talking with and either have already met with or will meet with? Have there been any direct contacts with Hezbollah? Is there any indication to believe there's any diplomatic daylight?

RICE: Well, first of all, with Syria there have been all kinds of contacts, obviously. Any number of governments have been talking to the Syrians for quite a long time.

The Syrians have to make a choice. Do they really wish to be associated with the circumstances that help extremism to grow in the region? Or are they going to be a part of what is clearly a consensus of the major Arab states in the region that extremism is one of the problems here?

In this sense, I would just ask you to look back on what is being said by some of these Arab states. Everybody wants the violence to stop. There is no difference there.

But this is different than times in the past when there has been a reflexive response from the Arab states. This time I think you're getting a very clear indication of where people think the problem is. And Syria has to determine whether it's going to be a part of that consensus or not.

RICE: As to Hezbollah, as I said, Hezbollah is the source of the problem. And this should be an arrangement between the Lebanese government and the international community and Israel, because it is the Lebanese government that is sovereign, not Hezbollah.

This is not an arrangement -- and I want to just underscore that 1559 is an obligation of the Lebanese government, the international community and its neighbors.

Hezbollah, in this form, is a terrorist organization and I don't think we're talking about an arrangement between Hezbollah and the international community.

QUESTION: The United States has deployed a force -- or there was an international force separating the Palestinians and Israelis in 1982.

RICE: Lebanese...

QUESTION: Well, the Palestinians...

RICE: Oh, you mean the Palestinians camps in Lebanon.

QUESTION: Yes.

RICE: I just wanted to make sure we were talking about Lebanon.

QUESTION: I was there then.

RICE: Yes, sorry. I know.

QUESTION: Can you describe how the stabilization force might be different from what it was before? Would it have more muscle? There's talk of a Kosovo model. Can you give us any more meat on the bones of what's being discussed?

RICE: I discussed some of this in New York with Secretary General Annan. We are in discussions with our allies, as well.

Look, I think everybody understands that it has to be a force robust enough to do the job: to make sure that the conditions in southern Lebanon are such that the reason for the violence has been dealt with; and that is that southern Lebanon is used as a platform by Hezbollah to attack Israel. That's going to take a robust force.

The questions about what kind of force it is, what its command structure is, is it a U.N. force, is it an international assistance force -- those are the discussions that are going on, and I think are going to go on over the next few days.

QUESTION: Will Hezbollah have to be disarmed before the force is in place, or will it have a mandate that includes disarming Hezbollah?

RICE: I think we have to discuss the mandate, first and foremost, with the Lebanese and with the Israelis, who have most stake here, and then with the international community.

I'm not going to try to prejudge what the mandate's going to look like. But it's got to be robust and it's got to be capable of helping the Lebanese forces make certain that southern Lebanon is not a haven for these kind of attacks.

QUESTION: Madam Secretary, aren't you concerned that the delay in halting the fighting and the loss of many civilian lives in Lebanon will hamper your efforts to win the hearts and minds of the Arab world?

RICE: I'm concerned about civilian casualties because I'm concerned about civilian casualties. Nobody wants to see innocent civilians caught up in this kind of fighting. And it's why we are very determined to do more about the humanitarian situation. It's why we have talked so determinedly and so frequently with the Israelis about restraint in their operations. It's why we've worked to get the humanitarian corridors opened.

This is a terrible thing for the Lebanese people.

The unfortunate fact is that if we don't do this right, if we don't create political conditions that allow an end to the violence to also deal with the root cause, deal with the circumstances that produced this violence, then we're going to be back here in several months more.

Because what is different now than when Robin (ph) was there in 1982 is that you have a circumstance in which a young democratic government, free now of Syrian forces, is trying to assert its authority over Lebanese territory and trying to be there for a good neighbor and a good contributor to international peace and stability.

And those extremists want to strangle it in its crib. They are frightened by the prospect of a Lebanon that is no longer a source of instability, no longer so weak that people use its territory in this way, much as these extremists want to strangle other new governments, new democratic governments in the region.

So this is a different Middle East, and it's a new Middle East, and it's hard, and we're going through a very violent time.

I want the violence against civilians to stop because the violence against civilians needs to stop. But I know that unless the circumstances are dealt with, it's not going to last -- any end of the violence isn't going to last.

You got the last question.

QUESTION: Madam Secretary, can you tell us why you're not actually visiting any Arab countries? And is it true, as some of us have been told, that some of the Arab states didn't want to host you while the Israeli offensive was going on?

RICE: Look, I am going to go to a place where we can all meet and talk about what needs to move forward. What I won't do is go some place and try to get a cease-fire that I know isn't going to last.

We're just in a different circumstance. And I think, frankly, people in the region understand that, as well as people in Lebanon.

Everybody is concerned about the toll on civilians. And everybody is concerned about the toll on the young Lebanese government. There's no doubt about that.

But everybody also needs to unite. The people need to stand strong now, because the time has come not to just take a temporary solution that is going to fall apart within -- I can't tell you whether it will be hours or days or weeks or months of its having come in to place.

So when I arranged my travel and arranged the decision to go now, I felt it was important to have done a lot of the consultations, I felt it was important to have the right group of people together, but I also felt that it was important to have come to a meeting of the minds of some of the elements that might actually provide a political framework for a stable peace.

Thank you very much. See you on the plane. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

RICE: Or not.

END



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/21/AR2006072100889_pf.html
« Última modificação: Julho 22, 2006, 01:14:44 am por Azraael »
 

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Azraael

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« Responder #177 em: Julho 22, 2006, 01:03:13 am »
Citação de: "RedWarrior"


Nao teria mais logica uma manifestacao em frente as embaixadas do Libano e da Palestina a pedir o fim do apoio destes a grupos terroristas para que o Medio Oriente possa, finalmente, ter paz? Pois... tambem me parece que sim... mas grupos terroristas normalmente nao ligam mt a manifestacoes ou a populacoes civis...
 

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NVF

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« Responder #178 em: Julho 22, 2006, 01:20:57 am »
Citação de: "othelo"
NVF
dou-lhe razão na chamada de atenção que fez, mas razão parcial, e isto porque, ambas as organizações se entreajudam e mantem laços estreitos de coperação, o ideal politico deles é básicamente o mesmo, os combatentes chegam a saltar de um lado para o outro.
por estas e outras razões poderam quase ser considerados um movimento quase unico, com um objectivo comum (digam eles publicamente o que diserem) que é a eliminação do estado de Israel.

Mas isto é como dizes, "Opiniões...todos tem uma"


Othelo,

Ha duas coisas em comum entre o Hamas e o Hezbolah: o odio a Israel e o facto de ambos terem sido criados para lutar contra entao ocupacao dos seus territorios por parte de Israel.

Admito que, actualmente, haja algum nivel de coordenacao entre ambos. No entanto, as duas organizacoes tem ideologias completamente distintas -- Hamas sunita e Hezbolah Xiita. Mesmo o seu modus operandi e' diferente: o Hamas e' conhecido e faz gala dos atentados suicidas contra civis; e o Hezbolah apesar de lhe serem apontados alguns atentados suicidas (que eles nunca admitiram) ataca normalmente alvos militares. Alias, nao e' a primeira vez que eles raptam soldados das IDF; ja o fizeram no passado e Israel acedeu a trocas de prisioneiros. Por isso e' que acho a actual ofensiva israelita um perfeito exagero -- que invadam o Libano e combatam o Hezbolah ou que mandem esquadroes da morte atras dos seus dirigentes do Hezbolah.

Mas o bombardeamento indiscriminado de civis e' intoleravel -- cai-se no ridiculo de as baixas colaterais serem os terroristas. Nao sei o que vos passa pela cabeca quando tentam racionalizar sobre a destruicao de um predio de apartamentos e a morte de dezenas de civis e se tem o objectivo de matar uns quantos terroristas ou destruir uns lanca rocktes. Mas para mim, quem faz isto e' tao terrorista quanto o Hezbolah, com a agravante de o fazer a uma escala maior.

Se eu fosse os EUA, desarmava ambos os lados e se queriam continuar a lutar que o fizessem com pedras e paus.
Everyone you will ever meet knows something that you don't.
- Bill Nye
 

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othelo

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« Responder #179 em: Julho 22, 2006, 02:42:10 am »
é como disseste, opinião todos temos uma, e eu acrescento o velho dito, ela vale o que vale, nem que seja só para nós.
OK :wink:
Olho por Olho, Dente por Dente
 

 

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