E o JXX Chinês???

  • 88 Respostas
  • 39724 Visualizações
*

cmc

  • 59
  • Recebeu: 1 vez(es)
  • Enviou: 2 vez(es)
  • +0/-0
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #75 em: Novembro 15, 2011, 02:40:40 pm »
Citação de: "whiskey01"
Os copianços na indústria da aeronáutica funcionam como copiar num teste na escola por um bom aluno. Se não copiarmos e não soubermos a resposta, temos duas hipóteses: Ou erramos/não fazemos e temos a resposta cotada como errada, ou tentamos fazer mas demoramos muito mais tempo do que se copiarmos. Ainda assim, há probabilidade de a nossa resposta não sair grande coisa, dado que não sabemos a matéria.
Se tentarmos copiar, temos certo (isto, claro, se não formos apanhados pela professora  :mrgreen: ). Além disso, demoramos muito menos tempo a responder à questão propriamente dita.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_Ufimtsev
 

*

whiskey01

  • Membro
  • *
  • 190
  • +0/-0
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #76 em: Novembro 16, 2011, 01:53:40 pm »
cmr,

Eu sei quem foi esse senhor, e quando escrevi o meu comentário tinha em mente de que o pai da teoria dos aviões stealth é russo. Mas quem aplicou o conceito primeiro foram os americanos, mais precisamente os engenheiros da Lockheed Martin que iniciaram testes por volta de 1970. Daí a razão pela qual eu falei em design, e não em ideias. Estas palavras não são sinónimos portanto já se está a ver onde estou a querer chegar.

Também estou ciente de que os americanos copiaram muitas coisas dos russos, assim como os russos já copiaram os americanos e os chineses (o mau aluno) já copiaram tudo o que é nação. Mas note-se que se seguirmos a sua linha de raciocínio, então é legítimo eu afirmar que tanto o F-22, como o J-XX, o F-15, o F-16, o Su-27, o Mirage 2000 e todos os outros aviões até agora construídos são da autoria dos Irmãos Wright, só pelo simples facto de que foram eles os primeiros a projectar e construir um avião que voasse. Há que ter atenção aos pormenores...
 

*

cmc

  • 59
  • Recebeu: 1 vez(es)
  • Enviou: 2 vez(es)
  • +0/-0
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #77 em: Novembro 18, 2011, 08:23:07 am »
Se calhar era melhor ter visto o vídeo antes de comentar, porque não é só a teoria científica, mas a própria aplicação prática que é da sua autoria, porque os americanos nem mesmo com o seu livrinho na mão lá conseguiram chegar. Mas está tudo explicado no vídeo.
 

*

Cabeça de Martelo

  • Investigador
  • *****
  • 23756
  • Recebeu: 4431 vez(es)
  • Enviou: 3152 vez(es)
  • +3582/-4641
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #78 em: Novembro 18, 2011, 11:35:21 am »
Um texto espectacular de alguém que sabe realmente dessa poda:

Citar
...Sobre o trabalho do Petr Yakovlevich Ufimtsev: quem não leu e compreendeu o assunto não consegue dizer nada sobre o mesmo. A ideia é genial e merece muito respeito. Os trabalhos dele não ensina ninguém a fazer um caça stealth, mas as ideias permitem aos criativos e visionários extrapolar os limites do teórico e colocar em prática aquilo que alguns diriam que não passa de uma bela teoria. Lembrem-se se existem satélites em órbita, se naves vão ao espaço, se o sistema solar é razoavelmente bem conhecido, tudo isto se deve a uma teoria de um físico-matemático chamado Isaac Newton.

A coisa só acontece de fato quando há domínio teórico capaz de fazer previsões, caso contrário, tudo não passa de um belo improviso, mas que pode render tanto ou mais.

As exigências do mundo impõem imaginação e criatividade; se falta alguma teoria pronta, então que se disponibilize recursos para os visionários de plantão. Não investir em tecnologias (em sentido lato) é submeter qualquer nação ao eterno atraso.


Abraços a todos!

Não identifico o autor deste texto, mas se alguém quiser ler mais pode ir ao fórum defesa Brasil.
Contra a Esquerda woke e a Direita populista marchar, marchar!...

 

*

whiskey01

  • Membro
  • *
  • 190
  • +0/-0
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #79 em: Novembro 18, 2011, 01:53:52 pm »
Citação de: "cmc"
mas a própria aplicação prática que é da sua autoria, porque os americanos nem mesmo com o seu livrinho na mão lá conseguiram chegar

Os americanos não conseguiram lá chegar? Eu diria que estes são um bom avanço:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-117_Nighthawk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22_Raptor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35_Lightning_II

É verdade que não são 100% invisíveis, mas isso nenhum avião é. Fisicamente, um avião é um corpo a mover-se no ar. Isto implica uma enorme perturbação atmosférica, que é visível em qualquer radar barométrico. A deflexão ou absorção completa de ondas de radar é um fenómeno quase impossível quando falamos de um corpo tão grande e com tal velocidade, daí que não se deve dizer que um caça denominado "stealth" é invisível, mas antes portador de uma assinatura de radar muito reduzida. Vi o vídeo, sim. Não respondo a ninguém com argumentos insustentados.

Citação de: "Cabeça de Martelo"
Um texto espectacular de alguém que sabe realmente dessa poda:

 :G-beer2:
 

*

AtInf

  • Membro
  • *
  • 257
  • Recebeu: 24 vez(es)
  • Enviou: 1 vez(es)
  • +3/-0
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #80 em: Março 13, 2012, 02:01:41 pm »








 

*

fabio gama

  • Membro
  • *
  • 8
  • Recebeu: 3 vez(es)
  • +0/-0
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #81 em: Maio 03, 2012, 11:54:26 am »
Novas fotos J-20   2012



 









fonte: http://www.militaryphotos.net
 

*

Cabeça de Martelo

  • Investigador
  • *****
  • 23756
  • Recebeu: 4431 vez(es)
  • Enviou: 3152 vez(es)
  • +3582/-4641
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #82 em: Julho 05, 2012, 12:34:38 pm »
Outro projecto novo (F-60):

 :arrow: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=247_1340605728
Contra a Esquerda woke e a Direita populista marchar, marchar!...

 

*

HSMW

  • Moderador Global
  • *****
  • 13005
  • Recebeu: 3370 vez(es)
  • Enviou: 7969 vez(es)
  • +1274/-2151
    • http://youtube.com/HSMW
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #83 em: Novembro 03, 2012, 11:00:54 pm »




https://www.youtube.com/user/HSMW/videos

"Tudo pela Nação, nada contra a Nação."
 

*

HSMW

  • Moderador Global
  • *****
  • 13005
  • Recebeu: 3370 vez(es)
  • Enviou: 7969 vez(es)
  • +1274/-2151
    • http://youtube.com/HSMW
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #84 em: Abril 05, 2014, 09:57:55 pm »


https://www.youtube.com/user/HSMW/videos

"Tudo pela Nação, nada contra a Nação."
 

*

Cabeça de Martelo

  • Investigador
  • *****
  • 23756
  • Recebeu: 4431 vez(es)
  • Enviou: 3152 vez(es)
  • +3582/-4641
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #85 em: Julho 10, 2014, 02:19:58 pm »
Noutros tempos...

Citar
Chinese delegation in front of the IAI Lavi prototype. Fourth man from right is Song Wencong - chief designer of the J-10.


J-10B 1st Batch No.20?
Contra a Esquerda woke e a Direita populista marchar, marchar!...

 

*

Cabeça de Martelo

  • Investigador
  • *****
  • 23756
  • Recebeu: 4431 vez(es)
  • Enviou: 3152 vez(es)
  • +3582/-4641
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #86 em: Julho 12, 2014, 12:27:42 pm »
A resposta Japonesa:





O protótipo deve fazer o primeiro voo ainda este ano.
Contra a Esquerda woke e a Direita populista marchar, marchar!...

 
Os seguintes utilizadores agradeceram esta mensagem: nelson38899

*

Cabeça de Martelo

  • Investigador
  • *****
  • 23756
  • Recebeu: 4431 vez(es)
  • Enviou: 3152 vez(es)
  • +3582/-4641
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #87 em: Novembro 14, 2014, 04:11:24 pm »
Just how good is China's new 'stealth' fighter?
By Reuben F. Johnson, special for CNN

Editor's note: Reuben F. Johnson is a correspondent for IHS Jane's Defence Weekly, a publication devoted to defense and security intelligence and analysis. The views expressed are his own.

Zhuhai, Guangdong Province (CNN) -- Zhuhai's Air Show has always been a venue for surprises, usually first-time showings of advanced Chinese military hardware.

China's pathologically secretive defense industry normally shows nothing official of its weapons programs to anyone, which makes the biennial Zhuhai expo the only chance to see what its weapons makers have been up to.

Much has been written in the past few years about China's defense sector developing increasingly more capable weapons systems that approach the capability of their U.S. and European analogues.

Some Chinese weapons, such as a full range of anti-ship and air-to-surface missiles, seem to show that its military -- the People's Liberation Army (PLA) -- is equipped to challenge U.S. Navy carrier battle groups and potentially deny the U.S. the ability to operate in certain areas of the Pacific. But questions remain about how battle-ready the PLA is and whether it can function in a modern, network-centric warfare environment.

Battlefield autonomy

Today's battlefield operates on the premise that autonomy should be pushed down to the lowest level -- even down to the man in the field -- because time is of the essence. Getting inside of the enemy's "decision loop" is the key to victory. But, giving individual units the ability to make their own tactical decisions without their orders being delivered from several layers up the chain of command is an anathema to the "control uber alles" mentality of the Chinese leadership.

  China's Shenyang FC-31 fighter

China's Shenyang FC-31 fighter A Chinese J-31 stealth fighter jet takes off for a demonstration flight on November 9, in Zhuhai, China. China's air force is set to debut its newest fighter jet this week at Airshow China. The air show, held once every two years, aims to showcase the country's aviation power and this year coincides with a meeting in Beijing of leaders of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum, including U.S. President Barack Obama.  J-10 fighter jets of the Bayi Aerobatic Team of the Peoples Liberation Army Air Force perform during the air show on Tuesday, November 11, 2014.  Pilots climb into a J-10 fighter jet on Tuesday, November 11, 2014.  A guard stands by a Chinese-made drone at Airshow China on Tuesday, November 11.  Chinese-made J-6 Bomber on display at Airshow China on Tuesday, November 11.  J-10 fighter jets perform at the Airshow China 2014 in Zhuhai, south China's Guangdong province on Tuesday, November 11.  A new C919 airliner is celebrated on July 31 in Chengdu, China. The 168-seat C919, being built by the Shanghai-based Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, is supposed to someday be the nucleus of a fleet of Chinese-built passenger aircraft.  Currently, at least two new Chinese fighter jets are being developed, including the Chengdu J-20, a successor to the Chengdu J-10 fighter jet shown in Beijing on December 4, 2013.  China builds fleets of fighters and bombers almost exclusively for the People's Liberation Army and with very few foreign clients. Here, a Chinese-made Shenyang fighter jet is on display at the People's Liberation Army Aviation Museum in Beijing on December 4, 2013.  The Yi Long drone by the China Aviation Industry Corp. is shown at the 2012 air show.  A soldier stands guard next to planes displayed during the airshow on November 13, 2012. While most Western aircraft manufacturers stay aloft thanks to sales of commercial jets, China's state-funded aerospace industry is heavily geared toward the military.  China's J-10 fighter jets perform during the 2010 airshow on November 17, 2010. The day before the show China won orders for 100 of its large, domestically built passenger jets, challenging industry giants Airbus and Boeing in what will soon be the world's largest aviation market. China takes flightChina takes flightChina takes flightChina takes flightChina takes flightChina takes flightChina takes flightChina takes flightChina takes flightChina takes flightChina takes flightChina takes flightHIDE CAPTION<<< 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12 >>>
 Images: China takes flight

Inside Chinese military aviation museum

'On China:' Will China use its military?

Chinese cyberthreat READ: China's massive military machine goes on show

In terms of new weapons, the number one attraction at Zhuhai this year was the new Shenyang FC-31 fighter. It has generated a good deal of excitement as it's the first time a new Chinese military aircraft has been unveiled while still in the early stages of development -- we usually have to wait until after they start serving in the PLA's air force.

The FC-31 is designed to look like a stealth fighter aircraft in the class of the American Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. It is also the second, but smaller, stealth-type design to be developed by China. The FC-31's "Big Brother," the Chengdu J-20, first flew in January 2011 but has been shrouded in secrecy ever since.

The FC-31 "looks" stealthy and its shape mimics that of the F-35 in some respects. But it is impossible to tell just how successful the Shenyang design team has been in developing an aircraft with a low radar cross section without knowing the materials used, the placement of the engines inside the aircraft, and how well the heat signature from the engines has been suppressed by the design of the exhaust nozzle section.

Flawed design?

Like other PLAAF fighter aircraft, the FC-31 is powered by Russian-made jet engines, in this case two Klimov RD-93 models, which are a specialized variant of the same engine that powers the famous Mikoyan "MiG-29." There have been rumors that a team of renegade designers from the Mikoyan bureau in Moscow assisted Shenyang in the development of the aircraft, but a senior MiG official stated "no, as far as I know they [the Chinese] completed this design themselves, and they seem to have done a good job on their own."

The MiG official may be correct. An aircraft of this type designed with Russian assistance would probably perform better.

The FC-31's flight routine shows that it "bleeds" too much energy -- so when it enters into a turn it begins to lose altitude. Even during straight and level flight the pilot has to engage the engine's afterburners in order to keep the aircraft from sinking to a lower altitude. These are defects in the aircraft's aerodynamic design that a Russian design team would not have made.

READ: China lands first jet on aircraft carrier

Western aerospace analysts point out that the FC-31 flown at Zhuhai is a "clean" jet in that it is not armed, which means that an aircraft configured for a real mission and fitted with weapons would be even heavier and would perform even worse.

Timing a coincidence?

So, why has the PLAAF chosen to exhibit an aircraft that is either overweight, underpowered or both?

It could be an oblique signal to Washington timed to coincide with President Barack Obama's visit to Beijing for the APEC summit. The underlying message: "China is stronger than you think."

This would not be the first such example of China trying to use its defense industry to flex its muscles. In January 2011, when the J-20 first flew, then-U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates was in Beijing for an official visit. His read was that the timing of the two events was in no way coincidental.

Unfortunately for the PLA, the gesture falls flat.

Many would have been more impressed by the FC-31 in photos posted on Chinese websites than after seeing it actually fly at the air show.

Looks can be deceiving, as they say.

 :arrow: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/13/world ... hpt=hp_mid
Contra a Esquerda woke e a Direita populista marchar, marchar!...

 

*

AtInf

  • Membro
  • *
  • 257
  • Recebeu: 24 vez(es)
  • Enviou: 1 vez(es)
  • +3/-0
Re: E o JXX Chinês???
« Responder #88 em: Novembro 30, 2014, 05:50:29 pm »
Pakistan in Talks to Buy China’s FC-31 Stealth Fighter
by BRENDAN MCGARRY


Read more: http://defensetech.org/2014/11/26/pakis ... z3KZjbfHXu
Defense.org

Pakistani officials have reportedly begun talks with their Chinese counterparts to buy the FC-31 stealth fighter jet, according to a news report.
Pakistani Defense Production Minister Rana Tanveer Hussain confirmed the discussions were underway, according to an article published by Asia News International, a news agency based in Delhi, India.
The fourth-generation aircraft was unveiled earlier this month at the biennial Zhuhai Air Show. It was the event’s star attraction, marking the first time Chinese authorities allowed a plane that was still in development to be displayed to the public.
The display came ahead of President Barack Obama’s visit to Beijing for the APEC summit. It also came right before Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel had planned to visit U.S. allies in the Pacific.
While the twin-engine plane made by Shenyang Aircraft Corp. sort of resembles the U.S. military’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter made by Lockheed Martin Corp., it reportedly has design defects that cause it to lose altitude as it enters into turns.
The FC-31, which is the export version of the Shenyang J-31 that has been flying since 2012, is powered by two Russian-made Klimov RD-93 engines, a variant of the propulsion systems found on the Mikoyan MiG-29. It’s designed to fly close air support, air interdiction and other missions.
The Pakistani air force is reportedly considering buying between 30 and 40 of the Chinese aircraft to replace American-made F-16s, even though it’s more likely to employ tactical rather than stealth aircraft in actual missions to support ground troops.


Read more: http://defensetech.org/2014/11/26/pakis ... z3KZjR9pEW
Defense.org