Enviado por: Death Angel em Março 16, 2009, 07:57:29 pm
Alguem sabe onde posso adquirir a obra Mein Kampf de Adolf Hitler traduzida em português na área de Lisboa?
P.S.: Senhores Moderadores não sou skinhead nem prentendo difamar nada apenas estou interessado nesta obra "histórica"!
Enviado por: Chicken_Bone em Março 16, 2009, 08:35:10 pm
Enviado por: Vicente de Lisboa em Março 16, 2009, 09:27:01 pm
Enviado por: Death Angel em Março 18, 2009, 07:38:16 pm
Enviado por: komet em Março 19, 2009, 03:00:31 am
Enviado por: papatango em Maio 03, 2009, 07:59:21 pm
Tem algum dado sobre isso ?
É que eu tenho um que acho que foi comprado numa livraria e não me pareceu nada proibido.
O que me pareceu foi uma perda de tempo. O Hitler era um imbecil, e é incrível como é que conseguiu convencer tanta gente.
Cá para mim os alemães andavam todos a cheirar cola de sapateiro naquele tempo, porque não encontro outra explicação para a chegada ao poder do Hitler.
Era um mau pintor, mas como escritor era um desastre.
Achei especialmente engraçada a preocupação do Hitler com a propagação da Sífilis.
Enfim, só comprando o livro para poder dizer que foi dinheiro deitado fora.
Enviado por: Cabeça de Martelo em Maio 05, 2009, 11:56:54 am
Citação de: "papatango"
O Mein Kampf foi proíbido ?
Tem algum dado sobre isso ?
É que eu tenho um que acho que foi comprado numa livraria e não me pareceu nada proibido.
O que me pareceu foi uma perda de tempo. O Hitler era um imbecil, e é incrível como é que conseguiu convencer tanta gente.
Cá para mim os alemães andavam todos a cheirar cola de sapateiro naquele tempo, porque não encontro outra explicação para a chegada ao poder do Hitler.
Era um mau pintor, mas como escritor era um desastre.
Achei especialmente engraçada a preocupação do Hitler com a propagação da Sífilis.
Enfim, só comprando o livro para poder dizer que foi dinheiro deitado fora.
O livro em si foi revisto por outras pessoas, já que ele não tinha capacidade para escrever "aquilo". Básicamente fez o que muitas "vedetas" fazem actulamente, debitam as idéias e depois são outros que passam para o papel as idéias e dão-lhe um certo volume.
Enviado por: matos01 em Maio 19, 2009, 06:08:45 pm
Enviado por: hellogoodbye em Agosto 17, 2010, 12:37:11 am
Citação de: "papatango"
O Mein Kampf foi proíbido ?
Tem algum dado sobre isso ?
É que eu tenho um que acho que foi comprado numa livraria e não me pareceu nada proibido.
O que me pareceu foi uma perda de tempo. O Hitler era um imbecil, e é incrível como é que conseguiu convencer tanta gente.
Cá para mim os alemães andavam todos a cheirar cola de sapateiro naquele tempo, porque não encontro outra explicação para a chegada ao poder do Hitler.
Era um mau pintor, mas como escritor era um desastre.
Achei especialmente engraçada a preocupação do Hitler com a propagação da Sífilis.
Enfim, só comprando o livro para poder dizer que foi dinheiro deitado fora.
Boa noite, caro forista, quer me vender o seu livro.
Enviado por: hellogoodbye em Agosto 17, 2010, 12:45:04 am
Citação de: "Death Angel"
Não nas habituais não dá porque o livro foi proibido de venda salvo erro em 2005! e todas as ediçôes daí a diante sofreram censuras que retiram alguma "piada" ao livro! Mas fui a um Alfarrabista na área de Lisboa e pediu-me a maravilhosa quantia de 45 Euros pela melhor edição portuguesa, fui a outro local e da mesma editora só pediram 28 Euros! Obrigado na Mesma!
Boa noite, estava interessado em comprar uma edição em Português de Portugal, quer me vender, pode me dar uma ideia aonde procurar, agradecia que me desse o nome de actuais editores, não conheço nenhum.
Só conheço a edição Brasileira de 1936, é muito caro.
Desde já obrigado pela atenção prestada, Sérgio Gomes.
Enviado por: Camuflage em Agosto 17, 2010, 10:25:50 am
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Agosto 23, 2010, 01:49:10 am
http://catalogo.bnportugal.pt/ipac20/ip ... ri=1#focus (http://catalogo.bnportugal.pt/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=128W524X41N08.805747&profile=bn&source=~!bnp&view=subscriptionsummary&uri=full=3100024~!796203~!3&ri=1&aspect=subtab11&menu=search&ipp=20&spp=20&staffonly=&term=mein+kampf&index=.GW&uindex=&aspect=subtab11&menu=search&ri=1#focus)
http://catalogo.bnportugal.pt/ipac20/ip ... ri=3#focus (http://catalogo.bnportugal.pt/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=128W524X41N08.805747&profile=bn&source=~!bnp&view=subscriptionsummary&uri=full=3100024~!862464~!4&ri=3&aspect=subtab11&menu=search&ipp=20&spp=20&staffonly=&term=mein+kampf&index=.GW&uindex=&aspect=subtab11&menu=search&ri=3#focus)
http://catalogo.bnportugal.pt/ipac20/ip ... ri=5#focus (http://catalogo.bnportugal.pt/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=128W524X41N08.805747&profile=bn&source=~!bnp&view=subscriptionsummary&uri=full=3100024~!897272~!5&ri=5&aspect=subtab11&menu=search&ipp=20&spp=20&staffonly=&term=mein+kampf&index=.GW&uindex=&aspect=subtab11&menu=search&ri=5#focus)
http://catalogo.bnportugal.pt/ipac20/ip ... THOR#focus (http://catalogo.bnportugal.pt/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=128W524X41N08.805747&profile=bn&uri=link=3100018~!40616~!3100024~!3100022&aspect=basic_search&menu=search&ri=7&source=~!bnp&term=Hitler%2C+Adolf%2C+1889-1945&index=AUTHOR#focus)
Enviado por: Marauder em Agosto 26, 2010, 02:26:13 pm
Citação de: "Brave Sir Robin"
É verdade. Na Alemanha, Hungria, Portugal, Suíça e Suécia, entre outros países, a edição e venda de Mein Kampf (Minha Luta) é proibida.
Eu consegui comprar através de um amigo...
Mas, não creio que seja dificil de adquirir num qualquer leilão da net.
Em inglês não há problema..tenho um lá em casa, tentei ler à uns meses atrás..um bocado secante..baixou uns lugares na minha queue de leitura.
Mandei vir pelo thebookdepository...tipo amazon mas sem custos de envio para quem não conhece
Enviado por: papatango em Agosto 30, 2010, 11:31:37 pm
É uma edição da Hugin Editores, Lda.
Tradução de Antonio Carlos Rangel
ISBN 972-8310-17X
Deposito Legal 119728/98
É o segundo livro da colecção «Documentos do século XX». O primeiro livro é «Hasta Siempre» de Che Guevara.
Primeira edição Fevereiro de 1998
Segunda edição Março de 1998.
No entanto, aparentemente esta editora não existe mais pois terá falido. Não haverá muita gente interessada em ditadores e criminosos genocidas como Hitler ou Che Guevara. ...
O livro está completo e inclui desde a dedicatória de 16 de Outubro de 1924 e inclui um capítulo adicional sobre a história do livro. Não tem absolutamente nada de clandestino e foi comprado de forma absolutamente legítima.
Mein Kampf é um documento histórico e deve ser lido como isso. Da mesma forma que o livro vermelho de Mao Tse Tung, ou que os livros de Lenin.
As criticas de Hitler à democracia, são as mesmas que ouvimos da boca de muita gente da esquerda, que critica o sistema, utilizando os mesmos argumentos.
Escutem o Xico Louçã, que poupam o dinheiro do livro...
Mas ao mesmo tempo, lendo-o ficam a perceber porque é que me irrito tanto com as hipocrisias da esquerda...
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Agosto 31, 2010, 12:36:00 am
http://www.bulhosa.pt/search.ud121?sear ... OLF+HITLER (http://www.bulhosa.pt/search.ud121?search_page=search.ud121&&trigger_pre_event_0=search_result&trigger_event_0=print_search_result&sheet_page=yes&search_word=hitler&search_attr=author&search_attr_value=all&search_attr_extra=all&from_zone=Listagem+de+Autores+Por+Pesquisa&search_attr_value=ADOLF+HITLER)
http://www.bertrand.pt/catalogo/detalhe ... ?id=106071 (http://www.bertrand.pt/catalogo/detalhes_produto.php?id=106071)
http://pesquisa.fnac.pt/ADOLF-HITLER/ia2045 (http://pesquisa.fnac.pt/ADOLF-HITLER/ia2045)
Enviado por: Lusitanian em Fevereiro 09, 2011, 01:41:49 am
Citar
Sugiro que tentes mandar um mail para algum dos gajos de extrema-direita (PNR ou lá como se chama) a perguntar. Não estou a gozar.
Essa é uma tipica resposta ignorante. O que tem o PNR a haver com Hitler? Se não entendeu eu deixo esta frase: Conheçam-nos pelo que somos, e não pelo que dizem. Por este caminho, todos os que têm cabeça rapada são Skinheads, todos aqueles que parecerem muçulmanos são bombistas suicidas, todos o que defendem a esquerda são bichas enconadas...já entendeu onde quis chegar, presumo...
Enviado por: Cabeça de Martelo em Fevereiro 09, 2011, 10:47:12 am
Enviado por: PILAO251 em Fevereiro 09, 2011, 10:52:16 am
Tanto ou mais do que ler "A minha luta", é verificar as revisões, alterações, aparadelas e limadelas que o mesmo sofreu ao longos dos tempos.
Saiu há uns tempos, creio que numa revista de história francesa e com exemplos concretos, uma amostra das sucessivas alterações que as edições francesas a partir de finais dos anos 20 até finais de 30.
Mas as alterações eram tais que faziam mudar o próprio sentido de frases, e isto com vários exemplos.
Tanto quanto entendi do artigo, muitas delas se deviam a alterações no rumo da politica externa da Alemanha, e consoante o peso da opinião publica francesa.
Creio que também essas alterações se verificavam conforme o mesmo se destinava a ser vendido em diferentes países.
Isto é tão ou mais interessante que o livro em si, pois como e muito bem, já foi dito, o mesmo é duma pobreza intelectual, que levanta mais questões acerca da sanidade mental do alemão comum, do que as que soluciona.
Julgo que uma pesquisa na Net acerca do tema dê frutos.
Att.
Enviado por: Lusitanian em Fevereiro 15, 2011, 12:47:02 am
Enviado por: TOMSK em Fevereiro 15, 2011, 07:02:30 pm
Citação de: "Lusitanian"
Não entendo como, uma vez que Hitler queria exterminar-nos
Também não entendi isso.
Hitler queria "exterminar-nos"? A quem?
Enviado por: cromwell em Fevereiro 15, 2011, 11:15:49 pm
Não são bons para as mentes menos letradas.
Enviado por: nelson38899 em Fevereiro 16, 2011, 02:25:46 pm
Quanto ao livro vermelho, penso que tal não acontece, mas isso levaria-nos a muitas pàginas de discussão.
Enviado por: Cabeça de Martelo em Fevereiro 16, 2011, 04:40:21 pm
Citação de: "PereiraMarques"
Para "proíbido" existe nos catálogos das principais livrarias portuguesas:
http://www.bulhosa.pt/search.ud121?sear ... OLF+HITLER (http://www.bulhosa.pt/search.ud121?search_page=search.ud121&&trigger_pre_event_0=search_result&trigger_event_0=print_search_result&sheet_page=yes&search_word=hitler&search_attr=author&search_attr_value=all&search_attr_extra=all&from_zone=Listagem+de+Autores+Por+Pesquisa&search_attr_value=ADOLF+HITLER)
http://www.bertrand.pt/catalogo/detalhe ... ?id=106071 (http://www.bertrand.pt/catalogo/detalhes_produto.php?id=106071)
http://pesquisa.fnac.pt/ADOLF-HITLER/ia2045 (http://pesquisa.fnac.pt/ADOLF-HITLER/ia2045)
Enviado por: Cabeça de Martelo em Fevereiro 16, 2011, 04:42:42 pm
Citação de: "TOMSK"
Citação de: "Lusitanian"Não entendo como, uma vez que Hitler queria exterminar-nos
Também não entendi isso.
Hitler queria "exterminar-nos"? A quem?
É normal que um "untermenschen" não perceba...
Enviado por: TOMSK em Fevereiro 16, 2011, 06:32:39 pm
Enviado por: Lusitanian em Fevereiro 16, 2011, 06:42:17 pm
Citar
Também não entendi isso.
Hitler queria "exterminar-nos"? A quem?
Hitler, basicamente, considerava ou melhor, acreditava, que a raça ariana era a melhor de todas as raças. A raça ariana é normalmente composta por um grupo de, olhos azuis, cabelo loiro etc etc. Para Hitler devia exister só esta raça ou que as outras deviam submeter-se aos arianos. Raça latina (somos nós), raça negra e outras eram inferiores, segundo Hitler. E ele (atenção que posso estar errado nalguns pormenores exactos, estou a contar aquilo que basicamente Hitler pretendia fazer) quis fazer uma limpeza e alcançar um maior poder para a Alemanha, para que ela seja a maior das nações e consequentemente a maior das raças. Daí ter mandado exterminar Judeus, que eram inferiores e causadores de problemas financeiros e etc, segundo os alemães. Ele tambem escreveu ou disse, que nós (raça latina, ou seja, Portugal, Espanha, sul-americanos, Grécia - não sei se considerava a Itália nesse grupo - e por aí adiante), éramos inferiores a eles e que deviamos desaparecer. Afinal, depois de tomar França - um país latino - decidiu avançar para sul, em direcção á Espanha. Mas felizmente não aconteceu, devido á resistencia francesa, aos ataques de Aliados e á entrada de americanos na guerra contra a Alemanha. Daí eu dizer querer exterminar-nos. Claro que não existe raça ariana, nem raça branca nem nada disso. Existe apenas raça humana, e dentro disso, vários grupos etnicos, brancos, pretos, asiaticos e varios nomes que agora me escapam.
Citar
É normal que um "untermenschen" não perceba...LOOOL!!!
Admira-me é a força da Alemanha...contra muitos. Os aliados preocupados com o numero de baixas e etc, mas os alemães eram interminaveis, vinham sempre mais. Era assim tão populosa nessa altura (houve duas guerras mundiais contra a Alemanha...é incrivel)? Ou simplesmente eram bons a desviar das balas e a matar? Apesar do conceito ariano e de raças ser disparatado, não deixa de mostrar que realmente tinham força e poder para dominar o que quisesem.
Citar
Só se o Lusitanian é judeu ou cigano.LOL credo pá. Sou bem portugues...com um bocadito de espanhol. O que me entristece lol. Sou muito patriota de Portugal. O nosso amado país. Do lado espanhol, conforto-me com o facto de o meu tetra-avô ou tetra-avó (um deles era portugues outro galego) ser galego. Afinal não sou tão espanhol como penso. Tomates e coração, é tudo luso pá lool. Só uns 5 ou 10% de mim são galego.
Enviado por: Ranger1972 em Fevereiro 17, 2011, 06:37:56 pm
Citação de: "Lusitanian"
Eu até gosto imenso de mulatas (e bastante) e por vezes de pretas (há com cada uma...), e sou do PNR.
Ora aqui está um dos melhores posts que li neste fórum,subscrevo tudo excepto o partido,pois é coisa que não tenho.
Enviado por: cromwell em Fevereiro 18, 2011, 04:05:55 pm
Citação de: "TOMSK"
Só se o Lusitanian é judeu ou cigano.
O facto de o TOMSK ter dito isso, relembra-me de algo. Uma vez vi (já não sei onde foi) uma frase de Karl Marx onde ele dizia que os Iberos (Portugueses, Castelhanos, e outros povos da Península) eram racialmente degenerados.
Enviado por: TOMSK em Fevereiro 18, 2011, 06:28:14 pm
Enviado por: Lusitanian em Fevereiro 18, 2011, 07:14:29 pm
Enviado por: PILAO251 em Fevereiro 18, 2011, 08:34:15 pm
Ao fim dum ano a ver monaganbés, qualquer tijolo, parece uma sueca.
Enviado por: Lio em Março 01, 2011, 03:44:35 pm
http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/97 ... ranslation (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9780977476077/Mein-Kampf---The-Ford-Translation)
31,60€
http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/97 ... econd-Book (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9781929631612/Hitlers-Second-Book)
9,87 €
http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/97 ... Mein-Kampf (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9780977476084/Mein-Kampf)
6,83 (o tal a explicar mais ao menos a história do livro)
Saudações
Enviado por: papatango em Março 01, 2011, 06:52:44 pm
Citar
Em português existe uma que foi traduzida por um judeu. Mas aconselho a que não leias nada em português porque é puro lixo.
Qual é o Judeu ?
Qual é a edição ?
Quais são as passagens que estão mal escritas ?
Desculpe-me, mas eu não compro esse lixo.
A referência a traduções mal feitas, faz parte do argumentário mais velho do mundo e é uma forma de tentar distorcer as coisas e justificar o injustificável.
Essa ideia de que os livros estão mal traduzidos não passa de propaganda NAZI.
No entanto, se não é assim, diga-me quais são as edições que foram traduzidas por um judeu e se tem alguma ideia ou indicação mais clara, diga-nos quais são os capítulos que estão distorcidos ou que são lixo.
Transcreva aqui dois ou três parágrafos do que você acha que pode ter sido distorcido, para que eu possa verificar se a minha edição está de alguma forma censurada.
Todos agradeceremos.
Enviado por: Lio em Março 03, 2011, 11:56:52 am
Aqui fica:
1- Minha Luta (Português Brasil)
http://www.wook.pt/ficha/minha-luta/a/id/55750 (http://www.wook.pt/ficha/minha-luta/a/id/55750)
2- Leia isto com atenção e depois diga-me o que "aprendeu" ou ficou a saber. Aqui explica melhor tudo.
http://www.hitler-library.org/Mein-Kamp ... oversy.pdf (http://www.hitler-library.org/Mein-Kampf-Translation-Controversy.pdf)
"Mein Kampf has been controversial for many reasons. One of
the greatest controversies has been over the English translations.
We will analyze the various English translations and identify
problems, mistranslations, inaccurate translations, and outright
embellishment. From this we will then determine which translation
is the most true to the original German version of Mein Kampf
and discover previously unknown aspects of Mein Kampf."
Official Nazi Murphy Translation 1936-37
James Murphy created a translation for the Nazi government. He had some sympathies
for their politics and because of this the Nazi propaganda ministry hired him to create the
English translation of Mein Kampf. He worked on this edition in Germany. Over time,
Murphy’s opinions about the Nazi government changed. The German government decided
they no longer cared for him after he made some critical remarks and told him he had to
leave. He left quickly without his translation into English. Later he sent his wife back
and she was able to obtain a copy from his German secretary. The German government
edited and published the Murphy version which was completed for them, in English, and it
was printed within Germany from the presses of the Nazi printing office. Very few copies
are known to have been printed. Some copies were sent to POW camps in Germany for
British and American POW’s. A very rare version of this official Nazi English edition has
recently been re-discovered republished for the first time since it was printed by the Nazi
government. It is very interesting to compare this translation to both Murphy’s later British
translation and to the new Ford translation to see the differences.
This edition had the regular British spellings(James Murphy was British) which were
common for the time, to-day instead of today, and labour instead of labor. However, it
also had many gross misspellings, punctuation errors, and grammar errors. Apparently an
English speaking Nazi Party member took James Murphy’s unpolished translation and
tried to finish it.
Here are some examples of the errors in the Official Nazi Murphy Edition:
For instance, intelligentsia is spelled as intelligentzia in the Nazi edition.
“..the blackmailers that were arrested and gaoled.” instead of jailed where gaoled
is an archaic British term.
“... I was answerd with a triple ‘Heil’” notice misspelling.
“...that we should `look out for ouselves’ and...”
The word disintegration is sometimes spelled correctly and sometimes spelled as
disintregation.
“..would turn out detrimental rather than helpful to the interests of that provincebut through fear of an agreement ment being established between Germany..”
this may be an editing error duplicating the end of agreement or a misspelling of
meant.
“I endeavoured to instil them gradually into the members of the young
organization,...”
“...can continue to play an important rôle in the world only if Germany be
dismembered.” Notice the unnecessary pronunciation mark in the word “role”.
Murphy British Translation 1939
After Murphy was kicked out of Germany and he obtained a copy of his manuscript,
he continued to work on it. He finalized a deal with Hurst & Blackett, but they ceased
publishing the Murphy translation in 1942 when the original plates were destroyed by
German bombing.
Murphy often embellished sections, adding references, and making it into his own style,
not so much in Hitler’s style. Murphy often used long, uncommon words which make the
text hard to understand. Some of his words included fructified, fetters, propitious, milliards,
recalcitrant, ineluctable, loquacious, and other words the average person would simply not
recognize.
Murphy took artistic license in some of these descriptions and even with his German
language skill, he did not fully understand the meaning of many passages he translated.
He captured the general ideas, but the nuance was lost. He added to descriptions to
embellish them, but in doing so, he strayed from Hitler’s style and sometimes from the
meaning. Hitler often was very straight forward, using simple terms while Murphy used
complex words. While Hitler aimed his message at the uneducated masses, Murphy wrote
for the intellectual.
Murphy’s word choices were often taken out of a German-English dictionary which meant
he took the most common meaning, not necessarily the best meaning. For example, in one
place Murphy uses the word ‘devotion’ when the true translation is closer to ‘fanaticism’
Reynal and Hitchcock Translation 1938
Houghton and Mifflin licensed Reynal & Hitchcock the rights to publish their version of
the full unexpurgated translation in 1938. It was translated by a committee of men from
the New School for Social Research and appeared on February 28, 1939. This description
is misleading because some of the men on the committee had nothing to do with the actual
translation. Some of the translation is believed to have been completed by assistants.
The Reynal translation was more of a line-for-line translation. It is true to the original to
a fault. It is translated directly, sometimes in a way that makes the meaning unclear. The
original German sentence structures were often preserved which makes it very difficult
to read in English. Reynal also used many uncommon words. When the translators did
not understand a passage, they simply translated it literally word-for-word using word
substitution.
Stackpole Translation
Stackpole and Sons commissioned their own translation, without securing copyrights. This
was before World War II started so Hitler still had a copyright claim. The entire copyright
story is rather involved but interesting. The short version is that Reynal and Hitchcock
contracted the rights for the authorized version from Hurst and Blackett so they had a legal
claim in the US and stopped the publication of Stackpole’s edition after 12,000 copies were
printed. The Stackpole translation was rushed, it was inaccurate, and many sentences make
no sense at all because they were translated without paying attention to the meaning. It
looks like two different people translated it because there is a clear difference in the writing
styles between first half of the book and the second half based on the pages, not Volume
1 and Volume 2. Very little is known about the technical work of the translation done by
Stackpole. It is just as well that this version was not kept in print because it is one of the
worst translations and is filled with errors. The book is considered collectible however.
Here is an example from the Stackpole translation:
Stackpole translation: The world is ruled by only a fraction of all Wisdom, of
which fraction almost any Ministerial Councillor embodies but one atom. Since
Germany has become a Republic, however, this is no longer true-that is why the
Law to Protect the Republic forbids any one to say or even to believe such a thing.
It says “this is no longer true”, but the original German text and the clear meaning of the
paragraph shows that it IS true. Such mistakes corrupt the meaning of the original writing
and collectively make it confusing and unreadable. The Stackpole translation is filled with
errors, sometimes many per page.
Here is another example from the Stackpole translation. This could have just as easily
come from the Reynal or Manheim too.
Stackpole translation: The further result is, however, that in so doing the danger
of a battle of the defenders of the old State against those of the new seems once
and for all to be diverted. One cannot emphasize this fact too often.
The use of the word of repeatedly creates a confusing sentence. Such choices make the
translation hard to understand.
Manheim Translation
Houghton Mifflin commissioned a new translation by Ralph Manheim which was
published in 1943. They created this new edition to avoid having to share their profits
with Reynal & Hitchcock. They also wanted to offer a more readable translation. It was
a definite improvement over past translations, however it still has many errors and fails
to identify many critical references. It also mistranslates common sayings used by Hitler.
Manheim used footnotes to indicate original German words in an effort to clarify the
translation, however to a non German speaker this is not helpful and a German speaker
would likely read the original German so these notes were not useful. Many items that
should have been footnoted, such as people and places or sayings that were not familiar
to English speakers, were not footnoted by Manheim. When Manheim was unsure of a
word (for example Sheepshead meaning the Bavarian card game), he left it untranslated
and inserted the original German words in the text. His translation contains many German
words and sentences. Some passages are also missing from the Manheim translation, most
likely because did not understand them. I conclude this because the missing passages are
frequently complex statements that make more sense when spoken with inflection than
when written.
Manheim’s mechanical translation style also makes his translation difficult to read.
Sentences are translated almost word for word from German without thought to word order
or overall sentence meaning. The result is a jumbled and disjointed translation which is
nothing like the original book.
The Manheim translation contains numerous typographical errors as well. For example,
one line refers to a battle in “1948” which is long after Mein Kampf was written and
obviously should have been 1848. In another place it says: “It would be a stake to think that
the followers...” which should clearly have been “mistake”, not “stake”.
Ford Translation
This is the newest translation made in 2009. The past translations were mostly rushed to
press with little time for editing and correction. The Ford translation was not rushed to
press and was thoroughly researched. It is the first translation verified by actual German
native speakers. This is the easiest to read translation ever made. It has revealed many
elements of Mein Kampf which were not part of past translations including sayings by
Hitler and his poetic style which were edited out of older translations. The Ford translation
also maintains a high standard of accuracy. If Hitler used a particular word, then that
word was used and not embellished into another word. Every definition was evaluated to
make sure the correct translation was chosen, not just the common usage of a word. This
translation is also the only Mein Kampf ever available as a full length audio book from
www.Mein-Kampf-Audio.com (http://www.Mein-Kampf-Audio.com)
Translating any work is a major project. Simply understanding another language does not
mean someone can translate a work of literature. It is a very complex process and it is easy
to mis-translate a passage.
Here is an example of a problem in making any translation. In English we use the word
great but it has various meanings: large, wonderful, powerful. It is very similar in German.
They too have many words with multiple meanings which are often interchangeable, but
one meaning is more correct than any of the others. This was a problem in past translations.
The translator would pick the most common meaning which may not always be the best
meaning and this in turn alters the meaning of the sentence, “God is great.” Translated into
another language as “God is big” or is it translated to “God is fat” or “God is powerful”
or “God is extensive” or “God is very large”? All are possible translations and all are
technically correct if you only translate the words, however none of those examples are
true to the original meaning of the simple three word sentence.
These kinds of translation problems are found thousands of times when comparing the
original German to the older 1930’s and 1940’s translations. The Ford translators spent
a great deal of time and effort to make sure the Ford translation was not only technically
correct, but true to the original meaning and intent of Hitler’s words.
It was common to use past perfect tense in Mein Kampf, and in German writing in general,
they would say “the meeting took place” instead of saying “we held a meeting.” This can
make reading seem slow and boring. Many of these instances were changed to be more
active or at least less confusing in the Ford translation. This helps make the Ford translation
easier to read.
Comparing Translations
Hitler’s original sentences contained multiple clauses and long sentences which pieced
together many thoughts in a flow-of-consciousness format. There was originally no editing
to make it understandable, not even in the original German version. Many criticize the
old translations for being disjointed and rambling. This ignores the fact that Hitler was
a speaker and not a writer and he was speaking to the common man. If he had been too
eloquent his message would have been rejected and he would have been seen as a member
of the polished and proper bourgeois. His message was calculated to capture his audience
and he says exactly this in Mein Kampf.
We will analyze the various translations and reveal major problems in some versions.
Some problems in older translations are:
• inaccuracy
• biased word choices
• confused translations
• incomprehensible sentences
• alteration of meaning
• misunderstanding of original meaning
• skipping sections that the translator did not understand
• using uncommon and archaic wordsMEIN KAMPF
• removing style elements of Hitler's speech
• embellishment by the translator
• replacing inciting words with more casual words
• replacing idioms or expressions with inaccurate English versions
• removing idioms or expressions and losing their meaning
• mistranslating idioms
• using unfamiliar names or places without explanation
• misunderstanding references to places or people resulting in incorrect or
confusing passages.
The Ford Translation
You cannot criticize a work if you cannot read it. You cannot support a work if you cannot
understand it. Past translations omitted or softened passages which clearly revealed Hitler’s
policy and goals. Confusing sentences in older translations, uncommon words, and a poor
understanding of the underlying meaning, all combined to obscure the original thoughts
Hitler loudly expressed in his prison cell. To truly understand Hitler requires a Mein Kampf
translation that can be understood by the average person.
More people than ever are discussing Mein Kampf on the Internet, but very few of them
have actually read it. They assume they know what it contains. Some express opinions
without understanding what they are so violently against. Most Nazi sympathizers claim
allegiance to the book but cannot quote a single line from it. Neither person can explain
why they have strong emotions and a strong point of view because they have no idea what
is actually in Mein Kampf.
All they can say is that they know Mein Kampf is bad or good because they believe that is
what they should believe. If you want a reason to dislike or like Mein Kampf, then read it.
Then you can justify your claims.
The lack of an audio version limited the availability of Mein Kampf to the average, busy
person. Mein Kampf is now available to many more people in an audio format and the Ford
translation is the only complete audio version with 30 hours of audio as well as a printed
book version.
This version takes into account the many updates and corrections made throughout the
printing history of the original German version. There were passages which were made
clearer, some were omitted for various reasons (if they were important then they are
preserved in this edition, if they were unnecessary restatements they were omitted to match
the official version).
The line by line mechanical translations of the past lack the original passion that drove
Hitler and swayed the emotions of the German people. The older translations, which were
translated in a mechanical way, clearly missed the point of many passages in Mein Kampf.
They mistranslated references, and even edited out jokes because they failed to realize
Hitler was making a joke.
Many sentences were clarified to make them understandable in the Ford translation. A
number of original German sentences were written in a shorthand form that is common
in speaking but confusing in writing. When we speak, we often make assumptions about
the subject of the sentence or even the verb which is perfectly clear with inflection or
hand gestures or based on the situation. However, in writing some of these sentences,
which were dictated by Hitler, seem to make no sense. Only after careful analysis can their
meaning be determined. These shorthand sentences were often omitted in older translations.
The translators could not understand what was being said so they left them out. The Ford translation has restored these sentences.
The older translations also included obscure historical references which were not explained.
These are explained in the Ford translation. For example, when Hitler says “We will finish
what was started 600 years ago!” What does that mean? The old translations do not say
and the reader is left confused. The Ford translation includes notes which explain such
references. Without this clarification, modern readers would be unable to understand most
of the references to people and places, and many other seemingly obscure sayings which
had meaning to the people of the time but are uncommon today. Here is the passage from
the Ford Translation with the explanation inserted.
We will begin our work where it was left off six hundred years ago.(A reference
to the Old Prussia of the 13th and 14th century when Teutonic Knights conquered
regions and brought in ethnic Germans.)
Here is another example showing how historical notes make the meaning clearer in the
Ford translation:
Therefore finding men from this group who were ready to sacrifice their own lives
in the service of the new ideal was Love’s Labor Lost, it was impossible. (Love’s
Labor Lost is the title of a Shakespeare comedy which came from a Greek poem
that says “To do good to one’s enemies is love’s labor lost” doing good to your
enemies is futile, and here is meant as an expression of futility.)
You can see how the note in parentheses helps the reader understands the reference. Some
of the older translations did not recognize the reference and translated in such a way that
the phrase “Love’s labor lost” was not even included. Without this explanation most people
would have no idea what the reference was. Even if they looked it up, they would still
not know what it meant. This is an example of how the Ford translation has improved the
understandability of Mein Kampf. Also notice how the Ford translation not only used the
phrase correctly, but it includes a plain English version (“it was impossible”) right in the
sentence to make it extra clear what is being said.
The older translations included many obscure references to names and places such as the
following example. In older translations the name Dorten is not identified except to give
his last name. Any average reader would have no idea who this refers to or what it means
in context. The Ford translation gives a full account of such references to make the text
clear. This is not just a generic historic reference where the person’s name is listed with
their birth/death and a few words about them. No, the Ford translation includes a complete
description AS IT APPLIES TO THE REFERENCE. That means that you are not given
generic information but specific information that explains what the reference means in the
sentence where it us used.
Many of these references were well known at the time but have faded into history. Most
Readers of 1927 knew what they meant, but their names are unknown to modern readers,
even in Germany. Here is the passage from the Ford translation with an explanation that matches the context:
I considered and still consider those organizers to be traitors even to this day.
They were hired and paid for by France. In the case of Dorten, history has already
passed judgment. (Hans Adam Dorten, attempted a non-violent putsch in the
German city of Mainz which was unsuccessful and resulted in an arrest warrant
for treason. He took refuge in the French occupied Rhineland, the name for the
area on both sides of the Rhine river, and formed a political party there supported
by the French, however, due to his treason indictment, the other political parties
looked down on the new party.)
You can see how the Ford translation explains who Dorten is plus what the reference in
Mein Kampf actually refers to.
The Ford translation of Mein Kampf opens the work up to a much broader audience.
The availability in an audio format also makes it available to more people who want to
understand the mind that created the Nazi movement but are unwilling to read such a long
book.
E se puseres de lado essas tretas da propaganda e ideias pré-concebidas irás aprender um pouco de história, porque o livro é histórico e político, tenho dezenas de livros sobre Hitler, Franco, Salazar, Mussolini e Estaline e isso não faz de mim nazi nem comunista, isso é tudo ideias que vos põem na cabeça, pois eu penso por a minha.
Curiosidades:
Mein Kampf has approximately 245,244 words total (this number is from the Ford
Translation which will be used in all statistics).
Word Occurrence Counts:
• The word Jew or Jewish or Jewry is used 547 times
• negro appears 20 times
• nigger does not appear at all
• Marxist appears 135 times
• populist(meaning racialist) appears 98 times
• race appears 339 times
• political appears 447 times
• France appears 129 times
• war appears 450 times
• hero appears 103 times
Enviado por: Lio em Março 03, 2011, 11:59:06 am
Enviado por: papatango em Março 03, 2011, 12:52:36 pm
Você afirmou que as edições em português estavam adulteradas e que as traduções também estavam adulteradas.
Eu tenho uma versão do Mein Kampf editada em Portugal pela Hugin Editores e traduzida por Antonio Carlos Rangel e quero ver se há alguma passagem em que possamos verificar que há adulteração do texto.
Eu não quero saber o que disse um imbecil qualquer e que foi publicado num qualquer site de fanáticos.
Eu quero exemplos !
VOCÊ COMPROVOU O QUE DISSE ?
VOCÊ TEM UM EXEMPLO EFECTIVO PARA DAR EM VEZ DE UM TEXTO PUBLICADO EM SITES NAZISTAS ?
MOSTRE O EXEMPLO ! ! !
É apenas o que lhe peço. Um parágrafo, uma frase, qualquer coisa, que me permita pelo menos pensar que pode haver qualquer razão no que você disse.
E por favor poupe-nos com os copy-paste. Você pode apenas colocar um Link que é o suficiente e não suja o forum.
E não vale o argumento das traduções brasileiras.
Todos sabemos que há traduções brasileiras que são um desastre em todos os tipos de livros.
Em informática então, deixei de comprar livros em português do Brasil, porque não entendia nada.
Mas uma coisa é uma má tradução por questões de qualidade dos tradutores e outra completamente diferente é tentar criar a impressão de que as traduções são propositadamente adulteradas e escritas por judeus para dar a impressão de que o Hitler era pior do que na realidade era.
Tanto os nazistas quanto os comunistas utilizam o mesmo argumentário porco.
Depois dos crimes que cometeram e do terror que provocaram explicam que foi tudo um erro e que os ditadores não eram assim tão maus.
O Hitler, o Lenine, o Franco ou o Estaline eram afinal muito boas pessoas, e até escreveram livros (ou escreveram livros sobre eles) que qualquer criancinha deve ler para dormir descansada.
As traduções é que são mal feitas...
irra...
Enviado por: Lio em Março 03, 2011, 03:26:37 pm
Outra coisa é não confundir sionistas e judeus, Adolf Hitler era contra os sionistas e não contra os judeus. Ele tinha muçulmanos, indianos e negros no seu exército e até judeus.
Basta ver que a limpeza étnica na Palestina nada tem a ver com os judeus, mas sim com os judeus sionistas. Parece que nem assim percebeu bem as coisas e fiz "copy past", até que eu nem precisava pois possuo os três livros, foi para elucidar o que atrás foi dito, mas parece que nem assim o senhor percebeu.
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F__b4A9ds7SiA%2FTH7YszkoUaI%2FAAAAAAAACwM%2FUb7Ye7_90GM%2Fs1600%2Fsionismo7.jpg&hash=4d9c29f185693c90e1fe722773c3b253)
Adulterar:
Falsificar, viciar, corromper, alterar, modificar...
Boa Tarde
Enviado por: teXou em Março 03, 2011, 05:22:12 pm
Citação de: "Lio"
... Adolf Hitler era contra os sionistas e não contra os judeus. Ele tinha muçulmanos, indianos e negros no seu exército e até judeus. ...
Mouah ah ah ah ... muito isto me faz rir. :lol: :lol:
Então todos os judeus de Varsóvia eram sionistas ? ... mouah ah ah ah :mrgreen:
Então todos os judeus que se encontravam nos campos de concentração eram sionistas ? :mrgreen:
Sff, gostava, tambem de ver fotografias e/ou documentos que confirmam que havia unidades, batalhões, divisões ou exércitos de muçulmanos, indianos ou negros na Alemanha nazi.
Enviado por: Lio em Março 03, 2011, 05:36:36 pm
Aqui fica, pode ser que aprendas algo.
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/13%C2%AA_Divis%C3%A3o_de_Montanha_da_Waffen_SS_Handschar
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi498.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr350%2Ffolegari-BRA%2FBundesarchiv_Bild_101III-Mielke-036.jpg&hash=637d99da855f9fe2ea84b06bce13c114)
http://darozhistoriamilitar.blogspot.com/2009/06/legiao-livre-indiana-o-exercito.html
Ficas desde já que também houve portugueses que se bateram ao lado dos alemães, na famosa Divisão Azul.
Mas tu deves de ser comuna ou não, também não acreditas que os Soviéticos faziam experiências com pessoas e animais, e acreditas que o Livro Negro do Comunismo é treta. Pois, felizmente sou neutro e não digo bacoradas, a sério lê o ivro.
Enviado por: Lio em Março 03, 2011, 05:41:02 pm
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg202.imageshack.us%2Fimg202%2F2517%2Fsoldadosdass.jpg&hash=f9faa8a6df08aff43e10b1d1c1cb2579)
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.axishistory.com%2Ffiles%2Fkolonialtagung_in_bremen_1938.jpg&hash=b0e53b7369e72f8155e0e05e0f68603d)
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotospalestine.free.fr%2Fdieudonne.jpg&hash=1a197953758506eb08ddd6d42b942934)
Lê "A História Secreta Da SS" pode ser que as ideias pré-concebidas acabem.
Um a parte, deves de ter ouvido falar no KKK (Ku Klux Klan)?? Sabias que nem sempre foram assim e que também ajudaram negros.
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi34.tinypic.com%2Fih0emf.jpg&hash=c2fbae336fd2544ec4aef1400065b6a9)
Enviado por: TOMSK em Março 03, 2011, 05:44:30 pm
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frobertlindsay.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F01%2Fbundesarchiv_bild_101i-823-2704-10a_soldaten_der_legion_freies_indien.jpg&hash=8c751e652ec07445ddb9b7183f0872df)
Enviado por: Lio em Março 03, 2011, 05:53:08 pm
Enviado por: teXou em Março 03, 2011, 07:31:49 pm
Citar
...
Sff, gostava de ver fotografias e/ou documentos que provam e que confirmam a presença de negros no exército nazi.
Sff, gostava, tambem de ver fotografias e/ou documentos que confirmam que havia unidades, batalhões, divisões ou exércitos de muçulmanos, indianos ou negros na Alemanha nazi.
Não tenho resposta as perguntas ! :wink:
Para sua informação:
- 11 SS Panzergrenadier Division "Nordland": com dinamarqueses, noruegueses e holandeses
- 13 Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS "Handschar": Formada em fim de 1943 com voluntários muçulmanos da Bósnia-Herzegovina. Bate-se contra os partidários de Tito.
- 14 Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS "Galizien": Criada em 1943 com voluntários ucranianos.
- 19 Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS "Latvia": Divisão Estónia criada em 1944.
- 20 Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS "Estland": Formada a partir da legião SS Estónia. Início de 1944.
- 21 Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS "Skandenberg": Formada em 1944 com voluntários albaneses
- 22 SS Freiwillige Kavalliere Division "Maria-Theresa": Formada em 1944 com voluntários alemães da Hungria.
- 23 SS Freiwillige Panzergrenadier Division "Nederland": Uma parte da brigada de assalto dos voluntários holandês em Outono 1944.
- 24 Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS "Karstjager": Formada fim de 1944 com voluntários do Tyrol, Eslovenos e Italianos.
- 25 Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS "Hunyadi": Divisão de origem húngara criada início 1944.
- 26 Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS "Gömbös": Divisão de origem húngara criada em março de 1945.
- 27 SS Freiwillige Grenadier Division "Langemark": Parte da brigada de assalto flamenga ao Outono 1944.
- 28 SS Freiwillige Panzergrenadier Division "Wallonie": Parte da brigada de assalto valãoa, início de 1945. Comendada por Léon Degrelle o fascista belga.
- 29 Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS "Italia": Formada fim de 1944 com voluntários da república fascista
- 30 Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS "Weissrruthenien": Divisão russa formada durante o verão de 1944 com voluntários bielorrusos e ruthènos.
- 33 Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS "Charlemagne": Formada fim de 1944 com voluntários franceses.
- 34 SS Grenadier Division "Landstorm Nederland": Formada com milicianos neerlandeses
Unidades estrangeiras
Batalhão finlandês Nordost
Batalhão estónio Narwa
Batalhão de esqui norueguês Norge
2 regimentos romenos
1 regimento búlgaro
corpo honesto britânico Santo George
Batalhão de montanha suíço
Corpo honesto sérvio
Brigada de assalto Kaminski
2 Batalhões georgianos
2 Batalhões arménios
6 bataillons osturkisch Harround et Raschid
9 batalhões Tatars da Crimeia
4 batalhões Caucasianos
2 divisões de cavalaria cosaques
1 brigada de infantaria cosaque
Legião indiana Indische Freiwilligen
As nacionalidades na Waffen SS:
Albanês: 4.000
Arménios: 2.000
Valões: 8.000
Bósnios: 15.000
Britânicos: 100
Búlgaros 3.000
Caucasianos: 15.000
Cossacos: 30.000
Croatas: 10.000
Dinamarquês: 6.000
Espanhóis: 500
Estónios: 15.000
Finlandês: 4.000
Flamengos: 10.000
Francês 10.000
Georgianos: 10.000
Gregos: 1.000
Holandês: 40.000
Húngaro: 40.000
Indianos: 5.000
Italianos: 10.000
Kirgizs: 2.000 => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz
Letões: 25.000
Lituanos: 5.000
Noruegueses: 8.000
Romenos: 5.000
Russos: 18.000
Sérvios: 4.000
Eslovenos: 6.000
Sueco: 300
Suíços: 600
Tatars: 10.000 => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatarstan
Checos: 5.000
Turquemenos: 15.000
Ucranianos: 30.000
Uzbeks: 2.000 => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbeks
Ou seja cerca de 370.000 homens.
+ os Alemães Sudètos, Alsacienos, Luxemburgueses, da Boémia Moravia, da Eslováquia, da Polónia, da Hungria, da Roménia, da Sérvia; da Croácia, da Bugaria e da Volga: 300.000 homens.
+ 410.000 Alemães .
Enviado por: TOMSK em Março 03, 2011, 08:00:55 pm
Citação de: "teXou"
Citar… mas isso não quer dizer que a Alemanha nazi era multicultural.
Óbvio que não, nem me parece que tenha sido isso que o Lio quis dizer...
Enviado por: papatango em Março 03, 2011, 08:31:17 pm
Você está a falar com quem leu o Mein Kampf, e não vejo em nenhum lugar, absolutamente nada que comprove que a tradução que tenho está errada.
Logo, solicito que estude um pouco antes de vomitar disparates e sandices cretinas, próprias de uma qualquer Hugo Chaves, tocado a ganza.
A utilização pelos criminosos das SS de tropas não arianas está mais que documentada e não é novidade para ninguém que tenha estudado a II guerra mundial, especialmente neste fórum onde já debatemos imensas vezes a questão.
A sua utilização, não decorre de uma subita onda de amor dos nazistas pelos muçulmanos, sendo apenas resultado do desespero, quando se tornou óbvio após a entrada da América na guerra, que a derrota da Alemanha era apenas uma questão de tempo.
Os nazistas utilizaram tropas muçulmanas, mas não tropas árabes (e os árabes são semitas, como os judeus). O ódio aos povos semitas demonstrado pelo Hitler era tal, que levou o Xá do Irão a mudar o nome do país de Pérsia para Irão, para realçar a origem ariana dos persas, perante os povos semitas árabes da região.
O Hitler também considerava os eslavos como sub-homens, mas isso não impediu o III Reich de criar um exército inteiro de russos eslavos comandado pelos general russo Vlasov.
A energia do desespero, levaria os nazistas até a fazer pactos com a carochinha se isso os ajudasse, e nisso os nazis não eram diferentes de ninguém.
O problema, é que você está a distorcer a realidade (na verdade não distorce coisa nenhuma porque com argumentação tão ridicula só um anormal o levaria a sério) e a defender argumentos completamente líricos e só possíveis de apresentar num fórum de gente normal, quando se está sob o efeito de muito alcool ou muitas drogas.
Você não estudou minimamente a II guerra mundial e só isso justifica e explica a aridez patética da sua argumentação de criançola arrogante, a quem faltam uns tabefes no focinho para se comportar.
Para sua informação, para mim, comunistas e nazistas são a escória da humanidade.
São exactamente a mesma coisa e são faces da mesma moeda.
Porcos criminosos que deveriam voltar para o canil rapidamente.
Lugar de onde suponho você veio e para onde lhe peço que volte, para não nos importunar com mais lixo.
Enviado por: Lio em Março 04, 2011, 10:30:28 am
Enviado por: Lio em Março 04, 2011, 11:34:59 am
the greatest controversies has been over the English translations.
We will analyze the various English translations and identify
problems, mistranslations, inaccurate translations, and outright
embellishment. From this we will then determine which translation
is the most true to the original German version of Mein Kampf
and discover previously unknown aspects of Mein Kampf."
Official Nazi Murphy Translation 1936-37
James Murphy created a translation for the Nazi government. He had some sympathies
for their politics and because of this the Nazi propaganda ministry hired him to create the
English translation of Mein Kampf. He worked on this edition in Germany. Over time,
Murphy’s opinions about the Nazi government changed. The German government decided
they no longer cared for him after he made some critical remarks and told him he had to
leave. He left quickly without his translation into English. Later he sent his wife back
and she was able to obtain a copy from his German secretary. The German government
edited and published the Murphy version which was completed for them, in English, and it
was printed within Germany from the presses of the Nazi printing office. Very few copies
are known to have been printed. Some copies were sent to POW camps in Germany for
British and American POW’s. A very rare version of this official Nazi English edition has
recently been re-discovered republished for the first time since it was printed by the Nazi
government. It is very interesting to compare this translation to both Murphy’s later British
translation and to the new Ford translation to see the differences.
This edition had the regular British spellings(James Murphy was British) which were
common for the time, to-day instead of today, and labour instead of labor. However, it
also had many gross misspellings, punctuation errors, and grammar errors. Apparently an
English speaking Nazi Party member took James Murphy’s unpolished translation and
tried to finish it.
Here are some examples of the errors in the Official Nazi Murphy Edition:
For instance, intelligentsia is spelled as intelligentzia in the Nazi edition.
“..the blackmailers that were arrested and gaoled.” instead of jailed where gaoled
is an archaic British term.
“... I was answerd with a triple ‘Heil’” notice misspelling.
“...that we should `look out for ouselves’ and...”
The word disintegration is sometimes spelled correctly and sometimes spelled as
disintregation.
“..would turn out detrimental rather than helpful to the interests of that provincebut through fear of an agreement ment being established between Germany..”
this may be an editing error duplicating the end of agreement or a misspelling of
meant.
“I endeavoured to instil them gradually into the members of the young
organization,...”
“...can continue to play an important rôle in the world only if Germany be
dismembered.” Notice the unnecessary pronunciation mark in the word “role”.
Murphy British Translation 1939
After Murphy was kicked out of Germany and he obtained a copy of his manuscript,
he continued to work on it. He finalized a deal with Hurst & Blackett, but they ceased
publishing the Murphy translation in 1942 when the original plates were destroyed by
German bombing.
Murphy often embellished sections, adding references, and making it into his own style,
not so much in Hitler’s style. Murphy often used long, uncommon words which make the
text hard to understand. Some of his words included fructified, fetters, propitious, milliards,
recalcitrant, ineluctable, loquacious, and other words the average person would simply not
recognize.
Murphy took artistic license in some of these descriptions and even with his German
language skill, he did not fully understand the meaning of many passages he translated.
He captured the general ideas, but the nuance was lost. He added to descriptions to
embellish them, but in doing so, he strayed from Hitler’s style and sometimes from the
meaning. Hitler often was very straight forward, using simple terms while Murphy used
complex words. While Hitler aimed his message at the uneducated masses, Murphy wrote
for the intellectual.
Murphy’s word choices were often taken out of a German-English dictionary which meant
he took the most common meaning, not necessarily the best meaning. For example, in one
place Murphy uses the word ‘devotion’ when the true translation is closer to ‘fanaticism’
Reynal and Hitchcock Translation 1938
Houghton and Mifflin licensed Reynal & Hitchcock the rights to publish their version of
the full unexpurgated translation in 1938. It was translated by a committee of men from
the New School for Social Research and appeared on February 28, 1939. This description
is misleading because some of the men on the committee had nothing to do with the actual
translation. Some of the translation is believed to have been completed by assistants.
The Reynal translation was more of a line-for-line translation. It is true to the original to
a fault. It is translated directly, sometimes in a way that makes the meaning unclear. The
original German sentence structures were often preserved which makes it very difficult
to read in English. Reynal also used many uncommon words. When the translators did
not understand a passage, they simply translated it literally word-for-word using word
substitution.
Stackpole Translation
Stackpole and Sons commissioned their own translation, without securing copyrights. This
was before World War II started so Hitler still had a copyright claim. The entire copyright
story is rather involved but interesting. The short version is that Reynal and Hitchcock
contracted the rights for the authorized version from Hurst and Blackett so they had a legal
claim in the US and stopped the publication of Stackpole’s edition after 12,000 copies were
printed. The Stackpole translation was rushed, it was inaccurate, and many sentences make
no sense at all because they were translated without paying attention to the meaning. It
looks like two different people translated it because there is a clear difference in the writing
styles between first half of the book and the second half based on the pages, not Volume
1 and Volume 2. Very little is known about the technical work of the translation done by
Stackpole. It is just as well that this version was not kept in print because it is one of the
worst translations and is filled with errors. The book is considered collectible however.
Here is an example from the Stackpole translation:
Stackpole translation: The world is ruled by only a fraction of all Wisdom, of
which fraction almost any Ministerial Councillor embodies but one atom. Since
Germany has become a Republic, however, this is no longer true-that is why the
Law to Protect the Republic forbids any one to say or even to believe such a thing.
It says “this is no longer true”, but the original German text and the clear meaning of the
paragraph shows that it IS true. Such mistakes corrupt the meaning of the original writing
and collectively make it confusing and unreadable. The Stackpole translation is filled with
errors, sometimes many per page.
Here is another example from the Stackpole translation. This could have just as easily
come from the Reynal or Manheim too.
Stackpole translation: The further result is, however, that in so doing the danger
of a battle of the defenders of the old State against those of the new seems once
and for all to be diverted. One cannot emphasize this fact too often.
The use of the word of repeatedly creates a confusing sentence. Such choices make the
translation hard to understand.
Manheim Translation
Houghton Mifflin commissioned a new translation by Ralph Manheim which was
published in 1943. They created this new edition to avoid having to share their profits
with Reynal & Hitchcock. They also wanted to offer a more readable translation. It was
a definite improvement over past translations, however it still has many errors and fails
to identify many critical references. It also mistranslates common sayings used by Hitler.
Manheim used footnotes to indicate original German words in an effort to clarify the
translation, however to a non German speaker this is not helpful and a German speaker
would likely read the original German so these notes were not useful. Many items that
should have been footnoted, such as people and places or sayings that were not familiar
to English speakers, were not footnoted by Manheim. When Manheim was unsure of a
word (for example Sheepshead meaning the Bavarian card game), he left it untranslated
and inserted the original German words in the text. His translation contains many German
words and sentences. Some passages are also missing from the Manheim translation, most
likely because did not understand them. I conclude this because the missing passages are
frequently complex statements that make more sense when spoken with inflection than
when written.
Manheim’s mechanical translation style also makes his translation difficult to read.
Sentences are translated almost word for word from German without thought to word order
or overall sentence meaning. The result is a jumbled and disjointed translation which is
nothing like the original book.
The Manheim translation contains numerous typographical errors as well. For example,
one line refers to a battle in “1948” which is long after Mein Kampf was written and
obviously should have been 1848. In another place it says: “It would be a stake to think that
the followers...” which should clearly have been “mistake”, not “stake”.
Ford Translation
This is the newest translation made in 2009. The past translations were mostly rushed to
press with little time for editing and correction. The Ford translation was not rushed to
press and was thoroughly researched. It is the first translation verified by actual German
native speakers. This is the easiest to read translation ever made. It has revealed many
elements of Mein Kampf which were not part of past translations including sayings by
Hitler and his poetic style which were edited out of older translations. The Ford translation
also maintains a high standard of accuracy. If Hitler used a particular word, then that
word was used and not embellished into another word. Every definition was evaluated to
make sure the correct translation was chosen, not just the common usage of a word. This
translation is also the only Mein Kampf ever available as a full length audio book from
www.Mein-Kampf-Audio.com (http://www.Mein-Kampf-Audio.com)
Translating any work is a major project. Simply understanding another language does not
mean someone can translate a work of literature. It is a very complex process and it is easy
to mis-translate a passage.
Here is an example of a problem in making any translation. In English we use the word
great but it has various meanings: large, wonderful, powerful. It is very similar in German.
They too have many words with multiple meanings which are often interchangeable, but
one meaning is more correct than any of the others. This was a problem in past translations.
The translator would pick the most common meaning which may not always be the best
meaning and this in turn alters the meaning of the sentence, “God is great.” Translated into
another language as “God is big” or is it translated to “God is fat” or “God is powerful”
or “God is extensive” or “God is very large”? All are possible translations and all are
technically correct if you only translate the words, however none of those examples are
true to the original meaning of the simple three word sentence.
These kinds of translation problems are found thousands of times when comparing the
original German to the older 1930’s and 1940’s translations. The Ford translators spent
a great deal of time and effort to make sure the Ford translation was not only technically
correct, but true to the original meaning and intent of Hitler’s words.
It was common to use past perfect tense in Mein Kampf, and in German writing in general,
they would say “the meeting took place” instead of saying “we held a meeting.” This can
make reading seem slow and boring. Many of these instances were changed to be more
active or at least less confusing in the Ford translation. This helps make the Ford translation
easier to read.
Comparing Translations
Hitler’s original sentences contained multiple clauses and long sentences which pieced
together many thoughts in a flow-of-consciousness format. There was originally no editing
to make it understandable, not even in the original German version. Many criticize the
old translations for being disjointed and rambling. This ignores the fact that Hitler was
a speaker and not a writer and he was speaking to the common man. If he had been too
eloquent his message would have been rejected and he would have been seen as a member
of the polished and proper bourgeois. His message was calculated to capture his audience
and he says exactly this in Mein Kampf.
We will analyze the various translations and reveal major problems in some versions.
Some problems in older translations are:
• inaccuracy
• biased word choices
• confused translations
• incomprehensible sentences
• alteration of meaning
• misunderstanding of original meaning
• skipping sections that the translator did not understand
• using uncommon and archaic wordsMEIN KAMPF
• removing style elements of Hitler's speech
• embellishment by the translator
• replacing inciting words with more casual words
• replacing idioms or expressions with inaccurate English versions
• removing idioms or expressions and losing their meaning
• mistranslating idioms
• using unfamiliar names or places without explanation
• misunderstanding references to places or people resulting in incorrect or
confusing passages.
The Ford Translation
You cannot criticize a work if you cannot read it. You cannot support a work if you cannot
understand it. Past translations omitted or softened passages which clearly revealed Hitler’s
policy and goals. Confusing sentences in older translations, uncommon words, and a poor
understanding of the underlying meaning, all combined to obscure the original thoughts
Hitler loudly expressed in his prison cell. To truly understand Hitler requires a Mein Kampf
translation that can be understood by the average person.
More people than ever are discussing Mein Kampf on the Internet, but very few of them
have actually read it. They assume they know what it contains. Some express opinions
without understanding what they are so violently against. Most Nazi sympathizers claim
allegiance to the book but cannot quote a single line from it. Neither person can explain
why they have strong emotions and a strong point of view because they have no idea what
is actually in Mein Kampf.
All they can say is that they know Mein Kampf is bad or good because they believe that is
what they should believe. If you want a reason to dislike or like Mein Kampf, then read it.
Then you can justify your claims.
The lack of an audio version limited the availability of Mein Kampf to the average, busy
person. Mein Kampf is now available to many more people in an audio format and the Ford
translation is the only complete audio version with 30 hours of audio as well as a printed
book version.
This version takes into account the many updates and corrections made throughout the
printing history of the original German version. There were passages which were made
clearer, some were omitted for various reasons (if they were important then they are
preserved in this edition, if they were unnecessary restatements they were omitted to match
the official version).
The line by line mechanical translations of the past lack the original passion that drove
Hitler and swayed the emotions of the German people. The older translations, which were
translated in a mechanical way, clearly missed the point of many passages in Mein Kampf.
They mistranslated references, and even edited out jokes because they failed to realize
Hitler was making a joke.
Many sentences were clarified to make them understandable in the Ford translation. A
number of original German sentences were written in a shorthand form that is common
in speaking but confusing in writing. When we speak, we often make assumptions about
the subject of the sentence or even the verb which is perfectly clear with inflection or
hand gestures or based on the situation. However, in writing some of these sentences,
which were dictated by Hitler, seem to make no sense. Only after careful analysis can their
meaning be determined. These shorthand sentences were often omitted in older translations.
The translators could not understand what was being said so they left them out. The Ford translation has restored these sentences.
The older translations also included obscure historical references which were not explained.
These are explained in the Ford translation. For example, when Hitler says “We will finish
what was started 600 years ago!” What does that mean? The old translations do not say
and the reader is left confused. The Ford translation includes notes which explain such
references. Without this clarification, modern readers would be unable to understand most
of the references to people and places, and many other seemingly obscure sayings which
had meaning to the people of the time but are uncommon today. Here is the passage from
the Ford Translation with the explanation inserted.
We will begin our work where it was left off six hundred years ago.(A reference
to the Old Prussia of the 13th and 14th century when Teutonic Knights conquered
regions and brought in ethnic Germans.)
Here is another example showing how historical notes make the meaning clearer in the
Ford translation:
Therefore finding men from this group who were ready to sacrifice their own lives
in the service of the new ideal was Love’s Labor Lost, it was impossible. (Love’s
Labor Lost is the title of a Shakespeare comedy which came from a Greek poem
that says “To do good to one’s enemies is love’s labor lost” doing good to your
enemies is futile, and here is meant as an expression of futility.)
You can see how the note in parentheses helps the reader understands the reference. Some
of the older translations did not recognize the reference and translated in such a way that
the phrase “Love’s labor lost” was not even included. Without this explanation most people
would have no idea what the reference was. Even if they looked it up, they would still
not know what it meant. This is an example of how the Ford translation has improved the
understandability of Mein Kampf. Also notice how the Ford translation not only used the
phrase correctly, but it includes a plain English version (“it was impossible”) right in the
sentence to make it extra clear what is being said.
The older translations included many obscure references to names and places such as the
following example. In older translations the name Dorten is not identified except to give
his last name. Any average reader would have no idea who this refers to or what it means
in context. The Ford translation gives a full account of such references to make the text
clear. This is not just a generic historic reference where the person’s name is listed with
their birth/death and a few words about them. No, the Ford translation includes a complete
description AS IT APPLIES TO THE REFERENCE. That means that you are not given
generic information but specific information that explains what the reference means in the
sentence where it us used.
Many of these references were well known at the time but have faded into history. Most
Readers of 1927 knew what they meant, but their names are unknown to modern readers,
even in Germany. Here is the passage from the Ford translation with an explanation that matches the context:
I considered and still consider those organizers to be traitors even to this day.
They were hired and paid for by France. In the case of Dorten, history has already
passed judgment. (Hans Adam Dorten, attempted a non-violent putsch in the
German city of Mainz which was unsuccessful and resulted in an arrest warrant
for treason. He took refuge in the French occupied Rhineland, the name for the
area on both sides of the Rhine river, and formed a political party there supported
by the French, however, due to his treason indictment, the other political parties
looked down on the new party.)
You can see how the Ford translation explains who Dorten is plus what the reference in
Mein Kampf actually refers to.
The Ford translation of Mein Kampf opens the work up to a much broader audience.
The availability in an audio format also makes it available to more people who want to
understand the mind that created the Nazi movement but are unwilling to read such a long
book.
Enviado por: Lio em Março 04, 2011, 01:39:07 pm
Tradução da versão do Minha Luta da Centauro Editora: “Uma concepção social... não deve logicamente estimular, no seio do povo, o princípio aristocrático, mas...” Inacreditável: uma afirmação foi traduzida como negação! - NR.
[2] No original: “... ein völkischer, nationalsozialistischer Staat...”.
Na tradução: “... um Estado nacional-socialista-racista...”. O termo “völkisch” faz referência a “povo” ou “popular”. Como POVO = RAÇA + ESPÍRITO, vemos aqui uma tradução parcial e tendenciosa, e que não incorpora o pensamento do autor - NR.
[3] No original: “Der völkische Staat hat für die Wohlfahrt seiner Bürger zu sorgen, indem er in allem und jedem die Bedeutung des Wertes der Person anerkennt und so auf allen Gebieten jenes Höchstmaß produktiver Leistungsfähigkeit einleitet, die dem einzelnen auch ein Höchstmaß an Anteil gewährt.”
Na tradução: “O Estado nacionalista racista tem que cuidar do bem-estar dos seus cidadãos, em tudo em que reconhecer o valor da personalidade, e, assim, introduzir, em todos os campos de atividade, aquela produtiva capacidade de direção que só ao indivíduo é concedida.” Aqui o erro é pior. Esta última passagem traduzimos como: "O Estado do povo/popular tem que cuidar do bem-estar dos seus cidadãos, à medida que reconheça em tudo e em todos o valor da pessoa e, assim, introduz em todas as áreas de atividade aquela máxima capacidade produtiva que garante a cada um o máximo de participação" - NR.
[4] No original: “Es gibt keine Majoritätsentscheidungen, sondern nur verantwortliche Personen...”
Na tradução: “Não deve haver maiorias tomando decisões mas sim um corpo de pessoas responsáveis.” Não um “corpo de pessoas”, mas sim cada pessoa, individualmente - NR.
Enviado por: Vicente de Lisboa em Março 04, 2011, 03:06:35 pm
Anyway, às identificações:. A ver se adivinho:
Citação de: "Lio"
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi498.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr350%2Ffolegari-BRA%2FBundesarchiv_Bild_101III-Mielke-036.jpg&hash=637d99da855f9fe2ea84b06bce13c114)Isto são... Turcos? Árabes?
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg338.imageshack.us%2Fimg338%2F7610%2Fmaisnoarianosnoexrciton.jpg&hash=981d023e38d1511f283e90d35459b030)
Japoneses, parece fácil.
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg202.imageshack.us%2Fimg202%2F2517%2Fsoldadosdass.jpg&hash=f9faa8a6df08aff43e10b1d1c1cb2579)
Hepa, não faço ideia.
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.axishistory.com%2Ffiles%2Fkolonialtagung_in_bremen_1938.jpg&hash=b0e53b7369e72f8155e0e05e0f68603d)
Australianos?
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotospalestine.free.fr%2Fdieudonne.jpg&hash=1a197953758506eb08ddd6d42b942934)
Africano, mas não faço ideia de onde. Alguma colónia Britânica? Não reconheço a bandeira no braço.
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Março 04, 2011, 10:02:52 pm
Citação de: "Vicente de Lisboa"
(https://www.forumdefesa.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotospalestine.free.fr%2Fdieudonne.jpg&hash=1a197953758506eb08ddd6d42b942934)
Africano, mas não faço ideia de onde. Alguma colónia Britânica? Não reconheço a bandeira no braço.
Reino do Iraque.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Iraq)
De qualquer maneira o que interessa é que o que está a passar neste tópico é uma vergonha. Portanto o mesmo vai ser bloqueado e vou alertar o resto da Moderação e da Administração para esta situação.
Pel'A Moderação,
B. Pereira Marques