Enviado por: Donlef em Junho 22, 2012, 02:01:16 pm
Can you tell me where I can find informationa about 1. the command structures of the Portuguese Armed forces of 1995, 2. the headquarter structures of the Portuguese Army of 1995, 3. the Portuguese defence procurement in 1995 and 4. the Portuguese defence vision (for example pro-NATO or contra-NATO, power projection in Colonial possessions or just maintain national (border) defence). I hope you can help me. I have emailed a lot of Portuguese emailaddresses of the Portuguese Defence Ministry, but they are not responding or cannot help me.
I can read some Spanish and Portuguese (or French) so if you know some books or articles with information about those for points, I'm very interested....Thanks in advance!
yours,
Donlef!
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Junho 22, 2012, 04:14:16 pm
Portuguese National Defense Annually Statistics (from 2003 to 2009, in portuguese):
http://www.portugal.gov.pt/pt/os-minist ... ticos.aspx (http://www.portugal.gov.pt/pt/os-ministerios/ministerio-da-defesa-nacional/quero-saber-mais/sobre-o-ministerio/20120227-anuarios-estatisticos/20120227-anuarios-estatisticos.aspx)
Maybe you can get lucky, contacting some institutions directly, namely:
MDN-Ministério da Defesa Nacional (National Defense Ministery)
DGPDN-Direção-Geral de Política de Defesa Nacional (General-Directorate for the National Defense Policy)
Address: Avenida Ilha da Madeira n.º 1
1400-204 Lisboa
Tel.: +351 213 038 633
Fax: +351 213 019 280
E-mail: idn.instituto@defesa.pt (http://mailto:idn.instituto@defesa.pt)
The institution responsable for the formation of Senior Officers and Generals [also has some publications and develops some research]:
IESM-Instituto de Estudos Superiores Militares (Higher Military Studies Institute)
Address: Rua de Pedrouços s/n
1449-027 Lisboa
Tel.: +351 213 025 280
Fax: +351 213 002 179
E-mail: ipri@ipri.pt (http://mailto:ipri@ipri.pt)
Other "person of interest" may be Professor (and Rear-Admiral) António Silva Ribeiro, Professor at Techical University of Lisbon/School of Social and Political Sciences (http://http) and Deputy Vice-Chief of Portuguese Naval Staff (http://http).
Considering your subject of research, Professor/Rear-Admiral Silva Ribeiro book entitled "Organização Superior de Defesa Nacional 1640-2004" (National Defense Higher Organization between 1640-2004), seems very important.
http://www.wook.pt/ficha/organizacao-su ... /id/110107 (http://www.wook.pt/ficha/organizacao-superior-de-defesa-nacional-1640-2004/a/id/110107)
Good luck!
Enviado por: Donlef em Junho 23, 2012, 12:52:26 pm
Donlef!
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Junho 24, 2012, 06:22:10 pm
About the book, you should notice that it has a wider temporal range (1640 to 2004) that your theme and it is centered on the evolution of Higher Military Structures (from Monarchy to Republic, from separate War and Navy Ministeries to a single National Defense Ministery, etc, etc.), I believe it has some references to the international defense organizations which Portugal is a member, NATO, WEU, Eurofor, etc., but they are not the book's core subjet...So it is up to you...
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Junho 24, 2012, 06:53:52 pm
Lei n.º 29/82, de 11 de Dezembro
Lei da Defesa Nacional e das Forças Armadas (National Defense and Armed Forces Law)
http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/1982/12/28500/40634079.pdf (http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/1982/12/28500/40634079.pdf)
Lei n.º 111/91, de 29 de Agosto
Lei Orgânica de Bases da Organização das Forças Armadas (Armed Forces Basic Organization Organic Law)
http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/1991/08/198A00/44904494.pdf (http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/1991/08/198A00/44904494.pdf)
Changes both Lei n.º 29/82, de 11 de Dezembro (Lei de Defesa Nacional e das Forças Armadas) and Lei n.º 111/91, de 29 de Agosto (Lei Orgânica de Bases da Organização das Forças Armadas)
http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/1995/07/160A00/44204421.pdf (http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/1995/07/160A00/44204421.pdf)
Version of the Portuguese Constituion in effect in 1995 (be aware that presently, in 2012, there is a new version in effect).
Lei Constitucional n.º 1/92, de 25 de Novembro
Terceira revisão constitucional (Third Constitutional Revision)
http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/1992/11/273A01/00020045.pdf (http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/1992/11/273A01/00020045.pdf)
In this subjet be aware of the following articles:
President of the Republic (article 120th Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces and article 133rd responsabilty over other instituions, including National Defense and Armed Forces)
Government (article 197th Government political capacities, including National Defense and Armed Forces)
National Defense (articles 273th to 276th)
Enviado por: Donlef em Junho 25, 2012, 05:11:51 pm
Donlef
ps. I have spoken to Rear-Admiral Da Silva Ribeiro, he's willing to help me!
* In portuguese is Marques not Marquez
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Junho 26, 2012, 10:54:07 am
Good for you Rear-Admiral Silva Ribeiro is willing to help you. I believe he might be a good help to you since is both an academic and a military in active service.
Any help with any translation from portuguese to english be free to contact (although short texts please
).
Enviado por: Donlef em Junho 26, 2012, 01:25:39 pm
Changing the z into an s? Marques
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Junho 26, 2012, 03:05:03 pm
Enviado por: Luso em Junho 26, 2012, 04:56:16 pm
Citação de: "PereiraMarques"
First of all it is a matter of being rigorous. Being dutch, and without not knowing your surname, I believe if you are a Van Something, you would not like to be called a Vön Something.
That is one important thing to know.
Those little differences mean a LOT. Those are also boundaries, part of a virtual border that should always be acknoledged.
Enviado por: Donlef em Junho 30, 2012, 01:50:57 pm
Enviado por: Cabeça de Martelo em Junho 30, 2012, 03:12:48 pm
Enviado por: Donlef em Julho 02, 2012, 09:00:35 pm
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Julho 03, 2012, 12:55:15 am
http://www.youblisher.com (http://www.youblisher.com)
http://issuu.com (http://issuu.com)
http://www.scribd.com (http://www.scribd.com)
PS: Thanks a lot, but I'm not (still
) a Rear-Admiral...
Enviado por: Donlef em Julho 03, 2012, 05:34:53 pm
http://www.youblisher.com/p/373991-Portuguese-law/ (http://www.youblisher.com/p/373991-Portuguese-law/)
So, the Portugese Armed Forces were restructered in 1993. They were reduced and rationalized, but in what way exactly?
Then, there is the EMGFA which is the General Headquarters I suppose?
The EMGFA consists of: 1. the CEMGFA (CHoD), 2. EMCC which is planning body and helps the CEMGFA with his decision-making, 3. COFAR which is an operational planning body and 4. other chief commanders (I don't understand this fully).
The CEMGFA also had his own cabinet of advisors, but who are 'os comandos-chefes'? What is their function? They 'sao orgaos na dependencia do CEMGFA' (sorry for incorrect spelling). What does that exactly mean?
Donlef.
ps. I just bought a Euro 2012 Portugal away shirt! Beautiful shirt!
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Julho 04, 2012, 01:35:46 pm
"Comandos-Chefes" are Ad Hoc Task Forces created for a particulary reason/intervention.
See also article 22nd.
Citar
Artigo 22.º
Atribuição e estrutura dos comandos-chefes
1 - Os comandos-chefes, quando constituídos, são órgãos na dependência do CEMGFA destinados a permitir a conduta de operações militares em estado de guerra e, nos termos da lei, dispondo os respectivos comandantes das competências, forças e meios que lhes forem outorgados por carta de comando.
2 - A estrutura e o quadro de pessoal de cada comando-chefe constarão do decreto-lei que o constituir.
"orgaos na dependencia do CEMGFA" can be translated as "entities under the dependency [or supervision/command] of the Armed Forces Headquarters Chief of Staff".
Most of transformations were related with personnel redution, rather then materiel redution, with bigger impacts in the Army, rather then Navy and Air Force.
A brief list of changes:
- Redution for around 44.000 personnel in the Army, 13.000 in the Navy and 10.000 in the Air Force (1989 figures) to around 24.500 personnel in the Army, 10.000 in the Navy and 7.500 in the Air Force (2004-2006 figures);
- Downsizing in many army units: for example there was an Infantry Regiment for nearly all provincies ("Distritos") and many (half?) were cut down. The 4 military regions in the mainland were reduced to 3 (and totally disbanded in 2006);
- The Air Force Paratroppers (Paraquedistas) and the Army Commandos (Comandos) were merged in the new Army Airborne (Aerotransportados) (in 2004 this situation was changed with the creation of a new Army Commandos unit and renaming the Aerotransportados back to Paraquedistas, although remaning in the Army and not returning to the Air Force);
- The Paraquedistas and the Comandos were joined by other army personnel (theoretically all with airborne training/capacity) in to the new BAI - Brigada Aerotransportada Independente (Independent Airborne Brigade) (in 2004-2006, this brigade was restructured and renamed BrigRR - Brigada de Reação Rápida (Rapid Reaction Brigade));
- The 1ª BMI - 1ª Brigada Mista Independente (First Independent Mixed Brigade) was reestrutured (with significant materiel increase in quality and quantity, benefiting from "hand-down" materiel available from CFE Treaty reductions [M-60A3 TTS MBT, more M-113 APC, Chaparral SAM, etc., etc.]), from a mixed (motorized and mechanized) unit to a fully mechanized unit and therefore renamed BMI - Brigada Mecanizada Independente (Mechanized Independent Brigade) (renamed BrigMec - Brigada Mecanizada (Mechanized Brigade) in 2006);
- The BFE - Brigada de Forças Especiais (Special Forces Brigade) was deeply transformed, from a "theoretical" military formation based around the Commandos Regiment with support units on mobilization, to a Light Infantry Brigade designated BLI - Brigada Ligeira de Intervenção (Intervention Light Brigade) (renamed BrigInt - Brigada de Intervenção (Intervention Brigade) in 2006 and "armoured" with the Pandur II APC on delivery);
- The Air Force lost Base Aérea n.º 3 (Air Base no. 3) and São Jacinto facilities to the Army (Paratroopers transference). The FIAT G91, T-37 "Tweety" and T-38 Talon were replaced by 40 Alpha Jet in two squadrons, one of Alouette III squadrons was disbanded and one of the A-7P Corsair II squadrons had its planes replaced by F-16;
- The Navy lost one of its Fuzileiros (Marines) Battalion and all of its minehunters. The 3 Vasco da Gama class frigates (MEKO 200 PN) and its 5 Super Lynx helicopters were introduced around 1992-1995;
- Conscript Military Service was reduced from 12 months to (a "ridiculous") 4 months tour of duty. Volunteer (1 year) and Contract (2 to 8 years) personnel increased their numbers (Conscription totally eliminated in 2004).
Basically these are all the major transformations I can recall around the 1990-1996 period.
Enviado por: Cabeça de Martelo em Julho 04, 2012, 02:09:40 pm
Citação de: "PereiraMarques"
EMGFA is the Armed Forces General Headquarters.
"Comandos-Chefes" are Ad Hoc Task Forces created for an particulary reason/intervention.
See also article 22nd.CitarArtigo 22.º
Atribuição e estrutura dos comandos-chefes
1 - Os comandos-chefes, quando constituídos, são órgãos na dependência do CEMGFA destinados a permitir a conduta de operações militares em estado de guerra e, nos termos da lei, dispondo os respectivos comandantes das competências, forças e meios que lhes forem outorgados por carta de comando.
2 - A estrutura e o quadro de pessoal de cada comando-chefe constarão do decreto-lei que o constituir.
"orgaos na dependencia do CEMGFA" can be translated as "entities under the dependency [or supervision/command] of the Armed Forces Headquarters Chief of Staff".
Most of transformations were related with personnel redution, rather then materiel redution, with bigger impacts in the Army, rather then Navy and Air Force.
A brief list of changes:
- Redution for around 44.000 personnel in the Army, 13.000 in the Navy and 10.000 in the Air Force (1989 figures) to around 24.500 personnel in the Army, 10.000 in the Navy and 75.000 in the Air Force (2004-2006 figures);
- Downsizing in many army units: for example their was an Infantry Regiment for nearly all provincies ("Distritos") and many (half?) were cut down. The 4 military regions in the mainland were reduced to 3 (and totally disbanded in 2006);
- The Air Force Paratroppers (Paraquedistas) and the Army Commandos (Comandos) were merged in the new Army Airportables (Aerotransportados) (in 2004 this situation was changed with the creation of a new Army Commandos unit and renaming the Aerotransportados back to Paraquedistas, although remaning in the Army and not returning to the Air Force);- The Paraquedistas and the Comandos were joined by other army personnel (theoretically all with airborne trainning/capacity) in the new BAI - Brigada Aerotransportada Independente (Independent Airborne Brigade) (in 2004-2006, this brigade was restructured and renamed BrigRR - Brigada de Reação Rápida (Rapid Reaction Brigade);
- The 1ª BMI - 1ª Brigada Mista Independente (First Independent Mixed Brigade) was reestrutured (with significant materiel increase in quality and quantity, benefiting from "hand-down" materiel available from CFE Treaty reductions), from a mixed (motorized and mechanized) unit to a full mechanized unit;
[Write somemore latter]
:evil:
Enviado por: Donlef em Julho 05, 2012, 04:11:43 pm
Enviado por: Donlef em Agosto 10, 2012, 07:13:41 pm
"Os elementos da estructura do Execito relacionam-se hierquicamente pelos seguintes niveis de autoridade"
a) Autoridade hierarquica
b) Autoridade funcional
c) Autoridade tecnica
A Autoridade hierarquica é a correspondente ao exercicio do comando completo e verifica-se sem prejuizo de outras dependencias que sejam estabelecidas.
A Autoridade funcional é caracterizada pela natureza funcional do vinculo hierarquico entre o comando funcional e elementos subordinados responsaveis pela execucao de uma parte essencial ao cumprimento da sua missao e permite difundir normas e ordens e exercer competencia disciplinar.
A Autoridade tecnica é o tipo de autoridade que permite a um titular fixar e difundir normas de natureza especializada, sem que tal inclue competencia disciplinar.
Sorry for bad spelling, but this is in the Diario da republica 1993 I-Serie-A.
Is this typical for the Portuguese Army? The three levels? How should I interpret this? Thanks in advance!
gr. Donlef.
ps. I found this also: " O Conselho Superior do Exercito poderá agregar, sem direito a voto, outros oficiais habilitados para o tratamento
dos assuntos em agenda, a convocar pelo CEME"
What does this mean? Thanks in advance!
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Agosto 10, 2012, 10:50:06 pm
Functional Authority: "I am a LtCol in charge of an Infantry Battalion, you are Captain in charge of an Engineer Company, I order you to clean up the mines".
Technical Authority: "I am a Medical Captain, you are Colonel which have been shot, I order you to stay in the hospital bed".
The Army Supreme Council (Conselho Superior do Exercito) can call up experts (other officers qualified for treating issues in agenda) for helping in specific cases. For example, the Army Supreme Council Generals are analysing an incident with an army helicopter, they know nothing about helicopters, they may call, to help them, for example, an officer which is a helicopter pilot and an officer which is a mechanical engineer.
Enviado por: Donlef em Agosto 13, 2012, 11:46:16 am
Gr. Donlef.
ps. http://www.youblisher.com/p/402900-Procurement/ (http://www.youblisher.com/p/402900-Procurement/) about the procurement: Portugal spended primarily in the maintainace, modernization, re-equipment and improvement of their armed forces. Portugal barely bought new things, except for some 5 new helicopters and light caliber rifles (LPM, 1993; pp.4590-4592). What is interesting, however, is not the expected cutting in investments or defence costs, but an actual increase of the defense spending. In 1993, the total defence spending was 21.910 thousand custos, while in 1994 it was 32.314 thousand custos and in 1995 31.941 thousand and in 1996 34.231 thousand custos. So there was an actual progressive trend in defence spending instead of a downturn. The total defence spending (and probably also the total budget) converted was for 1994: 32314 thousand contos (contos: 1000 escudo) so 32314 * 1000: 32314000 contos. 32314000 * 1000: 32314000000 escudos. 1000 escudos was about 5 euro. So 32314000000 / 1000: 32314000 * 5 euro: 161570000 euro. 161570000 / 1000000: 161,57 million euro. The same calculation can be done for 1995 and 1996: respectively 159,71 million euro and 171,16 million euro.
Is this analysis correct? It seems 171,16 million euro is a little meagre since the other countries probably had their defence budget in the billions....
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Agosto 17, 2012, 09:47:59 am
Citar
Hi PereiraMarques, do you know where I can find information about the Portuguese Army of 1995? I just need some information on the total military numbers, the Portuguese quality of the Army, what equipment and materiel Portugal had. I doesn't matter if these are Portuguese sources...Thanks in advance!
yours,
Donlef.
Amigos (nomeadamente os "cotas" que conhecem as quantidades e a datas de aquisição dos diferentes materiais, como por exemplo, o Duarte e o Papatango (os primos Mendonça)
),Será que conseguimos ajudar este senhor?
Obrigado
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Agosto 18, 2012, 10:44:51 pm
--> viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2048 (http://forumdefesa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2048)
Enviado por: Duarte em Agosto 19, 2012, 02:35:58 am
http://www.youblisher.com/p/406502-LPM-1993-1997/ (http://www.youblisher.com/p/406502-LPM-1993-1997/)
http://www.youblisher.com/p/406504-LPM-2006-2011/ (http://www.youblisher.com/p/406504-LPM-2006-2011/)
Enviado por: Duarte em Agosto 19, 2012, 10:57:11 pm
Citar
Hi PereiraMarques, do you know where I can find information about the Portuguese Army of 1995? I just need some information on the total military numbers, the Portuguese quality of the Army, what equipment and materiel Portugal had. I doesn't matter if these are Portuguese sources...Thanks in advance!
The 1993-97 Military Programming Law listed in my previous post should have the main forces listed for you during this period: Army: the Composite Brigade became fully mechanized during this period, the Independent Airborne Brigade was raised during this time also, based on units from the former Air Force paratrooper corps, and the Light Intervention Brigade, which superseded the Special Forces Brigade; plus the island garrisons in the Azores and Madeira; and the 3 territorial defense brigades, north, center and south. The major subunits of these brigades are all listed in the appendix to the law, with their planned acquisitions. Let me know if you need help with the abbreviations used. The main air force and naval forces are also broadly listed. If you need more detailed info, let me know.
Enviado por: Donlef em Agosto 20, 2012, 11:10:27 am
gr. Donlef
Enviado por: Donlef em Agosto 24, 2012, 04:26:17 pm
Could tell me what kind of units the Portuguese Army had described in: http://www.youblisher.com/p/406502-LPM-1993-1997/ (http://www.youblisher.com/p/406502-LPM-1993-1997/) What kind of tanks did they have, did they expeditionary forces etc...I don't understand the abbreviations. Thanks in advance!gr. Donlef
Enviado por: Duarte em Agosto 24, 2012, 05:40:37 pm
In essence, during this period the Army was made up of the First independent composite brigade (1a. Brigada Mista Independente), which during this period of the 1993 LPM became fully mechanized, Brigada Mecanizada Independente, BMI):
The BMI was composed of:
HQ and HQ company - QG and CCS
1 Tank Battn. (GCC) with M-48A5, replaced with M-60A3 during this time frame
1 (and later 2) Mech. Inf. Battn (BIMec) w/ M-113A1
2 Motorized Inf. Battn. (one was fully mechanized, the second disbanded during this period)
1 AAA bttry - BtrAAA
1 Cavalry Recn. Sqdn - EREC
1 Field Art. group (Self-propelled) GAC with M-109A2/5
1 Eng Comp -CEng
1 Signals Comp. CTRMS
1 Service Support Battn - BAPSVC
the Independenet Airborne Brigade (BAI) was also raised during this period:
It was composed of:
3 Airborne Inf. Battn., 1 Anti-Tank Comp. 1 Cavalry Reconn. Squadron, 1 Field Art. Group, 1 Service Support Battn, 1 AAA bttry
and the Light Intervention Brigade., 2 Inf. Batt, 1 Cavalry Reconn. Squadron, 1 Field Art. Group, 1 AAA bttry 1 Service Support Battn.
These 3 brigades were the major operational units, plus there were three territorial defence brigades, raised from units in each of the military regions, North, Center, South. Each of these had 2 Inf. Battn., 1 Cavalry Reconn. Squadron, 1 Field Art. Group, 1 Service Support Detachment.
There were also the two Territorial Defence Groups of the Azores and Madeira with 1 or 2 Inf. Batt. each, 1 AAA Art. Battery, HQ and Support Detachment.
as well as corps level troops, like a medium artilliery group, Cavalry recnn. group, Engineer battn, Signals Battn, Transportation Comp., Medical battn. etc..
Enviado por: Donlef em Agosto 30, 2012, 02:17:58 pm
Gr. Donlef
Enviado por: Duarte em Agosto 30, 2012, 10:09:34 pm
Source:
http://www.operacional.pt/efectivos-militares/ (http://www.operacional.pt/efectivos-militares/)
Enviado por: Duarte em Agosto 30, 2012, 10:19:16 pm
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Agosto 31, 2012, 12:07:35 am
LOURO,Cristina (coord.) (1994) A Defesa de Portugal - 1994, Lisboa: Ministério da Defesa Nacional/Relações Públicas da Defesa Nacional, ISBN 972-96007-1-6.
Army
1989: 43825
1990: 30315
1991: 25916
1992: 26652
1993: 24204
Air Force
1989: 12275
1990: 13274
1991: 12364
1992: 11550
1993: 12791
Navy
1989: 15985
1990: 15891
1991: 15948
1992: 14547
1993: 13092
Enviado por: Duarte em Agosto 31, 2012, 01:43:22 am
Havia ainda os contratados, e mancebos do SMO (cera de 22,000 em 1993) a servir de 4 a 7 meses.
Outra fonte:
http://www.revistamilitar.pt/modules/ar ... php?id=363 (http://www.revistamilitar.pt/modules/articles/article.php?id=363)
Enviado por: PereiraMarques em Agosto 31, 2012, 10:11:28 am
One possible explanation for the difference between the sources may be related, precisely, with the 4 months short-term military service. For example, if the Army had a key number of having 20.000 conscripts a year, that means that they would incorporated a total of 60.000 conscripts, 20.000 from January to April, 20.000 from April to August, 20.000 from August to December.
Other explanation may be the difference between the authorized figures and the number of personnel that was really in service/incorporated.
I will try to read the publication (LOURO (coord.) (1994)) in more detail to see if it can offer some more explanations.