[Leonardo Besteiro]

Caro amigo não seria bom Portugal ter 3 Sub afinal um ficaria sempre fazendo seus pequenos reparos ou reparos maiores e dois estariam em prontidão, e quem sabe os jovem se entusiasmen com essas compras e resolvam se dedicar mais ao país. Seria muito bom que Portugal pudesse adiquirir pelo menos mais um sub.  Um abraço meu caro!

[teXou]

A dispute between the Greek Ministry of Defence and the German company ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) over the fate of the 214-class submarine Papanikolis has yet to be resolved, with the German Navy now offering to operate the submarine until an international buyer can be found for the vessel, which the Greeks refused to accept, citing ‘technical deficiencies’. The Greeks still owe US$839 million to TKMS for the submarine, in spite of the German navy declaring the vessel to be sea-worthy after conducting its own sea trials. One solution under discussion would be for Hellenic Shipyards to build an additional submarine to the current three-vessel order and allow HDW to keep the revenue from selling the Papanikolis. However, some industry commentators claim that Greece’s huge budget deficit is forcing the country to concentrate on long-term fiscal stabilisation, with one method being to cap defence expenditure. The trouble is that over the past few years, Greece has agreed a number of defence orders with large payment obligations. Therefore, it is suggested that Greece is deliberately finding problems in the military hardware to avoid having to pay.

http://www.companiesandmarkets.com/Summary-Market-Report/greece-defence-and-security-report-q3-2009-154032.asp

[SSK]

Boas,

Visto que temos tanta gente neste fórum tão bem informada sobre os novos submarinos, alguém sabe como está a correr as provas de mar?

[Fracapelo]

 

[Feinwerkbau]

molhadas?  

[luis filipe silva]

Foto das provas de mar no Báltico do NRP Tridente.

[JLRC]

Foto das provas de mar no Báltico do NRP Tridente.

   

[SSK]

molhadas?  

[P44]

Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Terminates Greek Submarine Contracts


A picture of happier days: the launching of “Papanikolis”.

TKMS to put the dispute on unpaid submarines into arbitration

08:57 GMT, September 22, 2009 defpro.com | The turbulences in Greek submarine procurement programme, which have been hampering any further progress for months, now reached their climax: After having accumulated arrears exceeding €520 million ($762 million) the Greek Ministry of Defence was informed on Monday by Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) that the contract for the construction of four submarines was terminated.

As ThyssenKrupp summed it up on Monday, “the Greek state has long ceased to honour its contractual obligations.” Although the submarines have been completed and are ready for delivery to the Greek Navy, the state refused to pay for the submarines due to technical shortcomings which have allegedly been discovered by the Greek Navy during sea trials in 2006.

As defpro.com already reported in late May (see: http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/320/), the refusal to meet its contract obligations may also be due to the fact that Greece is facing a huge budget deficit and obviously decided to enter a sort of a complex “waiting game” in order to not have to meet all of the current payment obligations at the same time. Now, TKMS has decided to make an end to this waiting game and announced that it wishes to put the dispute with Greece into arbitration.

TKMS has been involved in two contracts with the Greek state. The first of the contracts, dubbed “Archimedes Project”, was for the procurement of four 214-class boats, which are also successfully operated by the German Navy. Those boats are fitted with a state-of-the-art fuel-cell technology, allowing it to operate submerged for a very long time. According to TKMS, all four were ready for delivery. The second contract has been concluded to retrofit three 209-class submarines with fuel-cell propulsion technology.

The first 214-class submarine, christened Papanikolis, was laid down in Kiel as far back as February 2001 and launched in April 2004. The contract planned for the manufacturing of the remaining three boats at the Hellenic Shipyards, near Athens, which just as HDW is now part of the German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) group. As soon as the Papanikolis started her sea trials, however, the Hellenic Navy found a veritable host of major and minor problems with the vessel, which until today has resulted in the refusal to accept her.

The Hellenic Navy declared that the submarine suffered from insufficient stability while sailing in rough sea conditions, heeling by as much as 35-58°. Beyond that they found that the AIP system became inoperable after a few hours and noted problems with the ISUS battle system. The official report of the Navy also said that sea water was leaking into the hydraulic systems and that the submarine was not quite as expected. Therefore, Papanikolis has been docked in Kiel since 2006.

German industry accepted some of the shortcomings liabilities and maintains to have finally fixed the problems, however, payment has still not been made. Some expert suggested that Greece has been intentionally protracting the problem in order to delay payments and renegotiate the price. In fact, Greek Defence Minister Evangelos Meimarakis said in January he would try to renegotiate the contract.

Since the delivery of the Papanikolis, TKMS insisted that the submarine “met all standards” and, subsequently, engaged into long and fruitless talks with the Greek government on the issue. In addition to the production of the submarines, TKMS has largely invested in modernising and expanding Hellenic Shipyards site, buying it in January 2005. According to TKMS is has provided Greece with the most modern yard to build non-nuclear submarines on the entire Mediterranean.

Back in May, a ray of hope had appeared, when the Chief of the Hellenic Navy General Staff, Vice Admiral Giorgos Karamalikis, was quoted as saying that the technical problems with the Type 214 submarine were being solved and that Greece could soon be in a position to accept the three follow-on vessels. According to the quote, HDW had been willing to keep the Papanikolis and try to sell it to another interested buyer, which may have been Poland.

Although recent reports do not refer to this earlier development, it seems that this alternative has not been successful, as TKMS has now clearly decided to terminate the contracts and to see that payment will finally be made by the Greek government.


----
by Nicolas von Kospoth, Editor

http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/407/

[teXou]

Taiwan is considering purchasing four German-built submarines that had been rejected by the Greek Navy, a report said Wednesday
...

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Taiwan_in_talks_with_Germany_over_four_subs_report_999.html

[SSK]

Pelo que sei, ou julgo saber, de momento esta hipótese não está em cima da mesa. O que quer dizer que não possa vir a estar, houve sim uma sondagem por parte dos holandeses, mas para novos submarinos e não para os "monos" dos gregos.

[P44]

O que consta é que os 3 U-214 construidos na Grécia serão integrados na Marinha Grega.

Apenas o ex-Papanikolis (agora designado "NB 361") permanecerá na Alemanha á espera de comprador.

Wednesday, November 4, 2009
Three Type 214 Subs to Start Sea Trials




DefenceNet reports that the three Type 214 submarines built in Greece will start sea trials as soon as possible, in order to pave the way for their acceptance with the Hellenic Navy. Also, there seems to be some light at the end of the tunnel with regards to the Skaramanga Shipyards. The two sides have decided that the various proposals for the future of the shipyards will be evaluated by a third party and until then the shipyards will function as normal. Minister of Defence Venizelos made the following statement:

“During today’s meeting (with the Chief Executive of TKMS) a general framework was developed to complete on what was agreed with regards to the submarines and to find a viable solution for the Skaramanga Shipyards.

The German side assumed the obligation to find and suggest responsible and trustworthy solutions ffor the shipyards, solutions with financial and business depth. This way a list will be made of proposals which will be evaluated by an international third party company to be chosen by the Greek government.

In the mean time the functioning of the shipyards will continue normally and trials of the 3 new submarines will begin as soon as possible.

The aim of the government is to complete the submarine programmes as smoothly and quickly as possible and to find the most reliable solution for the future of the shipyards.

In the meanwhile the Thyssen Group as well as the Greek Government will act in good faith to achieve this common goal."

http://hellenicdefencenews.blogspot.com ... rials.html

[SSK]

Boas,

Esta notícia é um pouco estranha, visto julgo saber que os técnicos da HDW estão a abandonar o estaleiro grego após o cancelamento do contrato. E este foi mesmo cancelado!

Com isto não quero dizer que seja impossível/mentira este relato, mas acho estranho, mas os gregos...

[SSK]

Boas,

De fonte segura, Eu, os únicos países interessados na aquisição do Papanikolis à data são: Peru, Colômbia e Polónia. Volto a referir à data!

Quanto aos outros 3 construídos na Grécia, ao que sei vão ser espalhados pelos mais diversos estaleiros da Thyssen Krup pelo mundo à espera de comprador. A notícia de ficarem para a marinha grega parece-me uma maneira de pressionar o estaleiro a baixar o preço, devido ao facto da defesa grega não ter dinheiro.

Abraço

PS: Para quem me conhece sabe que não divulgo fontes, e sabe a qualidade das informações.

[Maginot]

Em Outubro estava em cima do cais com o nome "Kiel" pintado.