Os Estados Unidos após terem desmontado os impérios europeus, tentam fazer mesmo modo com as nações europeias. Uma Europa federal seria uma Europa fraca por conseguinte sob controlo americano. A União das Nações europeias é o último baluarte perante a hegemonia dos Estados Unidos, é portanto lógico que estes apoiam e favorecem a morte das pátrias.
Citação de: "EB"Na essência, sou da mesma opinião do P44. Já se sabe que a História é escrita pelos Vencedores....Em todos os conflitos armados são realizadas atrocidades, tanto de um lado como do outro das partes beligerantes...No entanto, penso que não se pode comparar o problema do Kosovo com a questão espanhola. No Kosovo, falamos de uma etnia de emigrantes (da Albânia) com uma cultura e tradições de um País que nada tem a haver com a Sérvia (pelos assim acho...).Cumprimentos.Exactamente, tratou-se de um êxodo maciço de albaneses para a então Jugoslávia, em busca de melhores condições de vida...comparada com a Albânia, a Jugoslávia era mil vezes melhor e mais rica.
Na essência, sou da mesma opinião do P44. Já se sabe que a História é escrita pelos Vencedores....Em todos os conflitos armados são realizadas atrocidades, tanto de um lado como do outro das partes beligerantes...No entanto, penso que não se pode comparar o problema do Kosovo com a questão espanhola. No Kosovo, falamos de uma etnia de emigrantes (da Albânia) com uma cultura e tradições de um País que nada tem a haver com a Sérvia (pelos assim acho...).Cumprimentos.
I have served two tours in Kosovo with the US Military and I can tell you the following as factual:1. Almost all facets and levels of the provisional government in Kosovo are corrupt. In fact its the worst I've ever seen and I've had to deal with some pretty corrupt governments during my career.2. Supervised independence or even full independence will not improve the miserable lives of the ordinary people of Kosovo. Partly because of what I've listed as fact "1"., and partly because it will take decades of imense amounts of foreign aid throughout economy in order to bring Kosovo into a functioning state that wouldn't need foreign assistance for its survival.3. Ethnic cleansing is still a common occurence in Kosovo but, this time its the ethnic Albanians ethnically cleansing the Serbs, Roma, Ashkali, Croatians, and Turk minorities through intimidation and at times outright force. I have personally witnessed this on many occasions.4. No amount of foreign investment will provide enough jobs for the amount of unemployed people in Kosovo. The only way for Kosovo to maintain stability is for the EU to open its borders for an influx of foreign workers from Kosovo.5. Islamic extremism is on the rise in Kosovo. KFOR soldiers have been attacked in Gjilan, Ferizaj, and Prizren when I was there. You just won't see or hear about it in the news. More Mosques have been built in Kosovo in the last five years than schools, roads, health clinics, and all other santitation project combined. Compliments of Muslim charities from the Middle East.6. Mass graves of Kosovo Serbs and Roma have been found during my rotation and reported to the UN. Yet nothing has been done. Why? When we posed the question to our UN contacts in Pristina they replied: "During the transitional stage of Kosovo this would be destablizing. We'll wait until there is a final resolution before we proceed." All those journalists interested in a real story...start looking in around Novo Brdo.7. The US Government along with key EU allies never had any intention of allowing Serbia a fair opportunity to negotiate with the Kosovar provisional government on the possibilities of a workable settlement that might have been permanent. I was party to a couple of meetings where US Government officials point blank told the Kosovar representatives that no matter what, the US will support independence and that going to these conferences in Vienna were just to give a favorable impression on the world opinion.These are the facts. Some people might be outraged and some might be supprised however it really doesn't matter in the final analysis of all things considered. Superpowers will do what they want.Kosovo independence will do nothing for stability of the region, in fact, the opposite will occur.The Kosovar Albanians are now joyous they will have a new nation but, when all the partying ends and the dust clears, all that will exist is another backward, poverty stricken, underdeveloped, internationally protected country in an area of hostile neighbors thats todays news story and tomorrows breeding ground for extremism and resentmentOther thing,I see you as granted that the Serbs somehow mistreated the Albanians as some second-class citizens. May I add that you also fail to mention the other major reason why the Albanians became the dominant demographic. In WWII the Albanians sided with the Germans and were willing actors in the genocide and ethnic cleansing that followed. That is when the demographics in kosovo initially changed. The Albanians were eventually given unparalleled autonomy and vast amounts of development funds for decades. But they squandered it all with their egregiously high birth rates. While at the same time continuing their acts of ethnic cleansing through a number of means, including everything from rape and murder, to arson, and well poisoning. (check western souces, like NYT, from the 80s). They had more rights than any minority people in the world (read the actual constitution and readers can see for themselves).Moreover, I invade readers to to check how Ethnic Albanian unrest was based on beliefs and instigation: some ethnic Albanians wanted to recreate the World War II entity, Greater Albania and wanted Kosovo to be Serb-and-"Gypsy"-free. In this sense their attitude had much in common with some whites in the segregationist south. Many news articles during the 1980s report that it was Serbs, not Albanians, who were oppressed in pre-1989 Kosovo.On this site fair-minded people can find many news articles and judge for themselves.Back then Albanians of Kosovo have not really been suppressed by anyone- in fact as a majority they were very much running the province themselves.1. Wash. Post, April 3, 1981; Yugoslavs Take Emergency Steps In Face of Ethnic Disturbance2. The Economist, April 11, 1981; Yugoslavia; Home-grown Bother3. NY Times, April 19, 1981; One Storm Passed, Others Gathering in Yugoslavia4. Christian Science Monitor (CSM); May 7, 1981; Kosovo sparking a Yugoslav purge?5. AP; Oct. 23, 1981; Minorities Leaving Yugoslav Province Dominated by Albanians6. CSM, Dec. 16, 1981; Why turbulent Kosovo has marble sidewalks but troubled industries7. Financial Times, Feb. 5, 1982; Police fail to crush resistance in Kosovo8. Financial Times, June 1, 1982; Kosovo riots jolt the regions9. NY Times, July 12, 1982; Exodus of Serbians Stirs Province in Yugoslavia10. Facts on File World News Digest; September 10, 1982; Serbs in Kosovo Exodus11. NY Times; Nov. 9, 1982; Yugoslavs seek to quell strife in Region of Ethnic Albanians12. BBC World; May 4, 1985; Serbian Presidency discusses emigration from Kosovo13. The Economist; Nov. 9, 1985; Yugoslavia; Is fair unfair?14. NY Times, April 28, 1986; In One Yugoslav Province Serbs Fear the Ethnic Albanians15. Reuters; May 27, 1986, Kosovo Province Revives Yugoslavia's Ethnic Nightmare16. Sen. Robert Dole; June 18, 1986; Senate Resolution Nr. 15017. NY Times; July 27, 1986, Minorities are Uneasy in Yugoslavian Province18. CSM; July 28, 1986; Tensions among ethnic groups in Yugoslavia begin to boil over19. BBC; Nov. 10, 1986; Group of Citizens from Kosovo Received in SFRY Assembly20. Wash. Post; Nov. 29, 1986; Ethnic Rivalries Cause Unrest in Yugoslav Region21. Reuters; April 25, 1987, Serb Demonstrations Add to Yugoslavia's Economic Woes22. NY Times; June 28, 1987; Belgrade Battles Kosovo Serbs23. Reuters; August 16, 1987, Serbs & Montenegrans Rally Against Alleged Albanian Attacks24. Xinhua; Oct. 17, 1987; Thousands of women demonstrate in Kosovo, Yugoslavia25. AP, Oct. 21, 1987; Serb, Montenegrin Pupils Boycott Classes in Kosovo26. Xinhua; Oct. 26, 1987; Federal police sent to troubled Kosovo, Yugoslavia27. NY Times; Nov. 1, 1987; In Yugoslavia, Rising Ethnic Strife Brings Fears of Worse Civil Conflict28. CSM; March 11, 1988; Yugoslav groups struggle for same land29. Reuters; July 30, 1988; Yugoslav Leaders Call for Control in Kosovo; Protests Loom30. NY Times; Sept. 23, 1988; 70,000 Serbs Vent Anger at Officials31. Wash. Post; Oct. 7, 1988; Serb Protesters Oust Yugoslavian Province OfficialsIndependence for Kosovo Now? Naah, not convincing enough. Only if If human trafficking, corruption and drug running were prerequisites for deserving independence Kosovo would satisfy such criteria hands down.Kosovo's provisional government (PISG) has had eight years to show that it is mature enough to lead all citizens of Kosovo into the future, but it has miserably failed. Eight years after NATO'S Bombing campaign and four years after the massive orchestrated Ethnic Cleansing campaign against Serbs, Roma, Bosniaks, Turks, Croats and Jewish citizens in March 2004, there still is no assurance that all the citizens of Kosovo can live in peace, with security, with freedom of movement and with full participation in all the fruits of society. On the contrary, today in the capital Pristina, which had a pre war Serb population of 40000, not one single Serb resides in the capital. Can it be that all of these citizens were war criminals? Can it be that grandmothers and children were war criminals deserving retribution? However, in Belgrade, the capital of Serbia, 110000 Albanians live comfortably and safely! Throughout all of Kosovo 200000 Serbs have been ethnically cleansed , another 100000 Roma have been ethnically cleansed, thousands of other minorities citizens (Bosniaks, Turks, Croats and Jews) have been ethnically cleansed, the majority of which have sought refuge in Serbia Proper! Why is that? Kosovo says its ready for Independence, but why cant it guarantee the safety of these refugee citizens? It has been eight long years! Hardly any refugee citizens have been able to return, even though NATO is there to protect them. 1000 Serbs and Roma citizens have been murdered, another 1000 are still missing. How many Albanian citizens of Kosovo have been murdered in the same amount of time relative to their demographic proportion of society? 150 UNESCO recognized Christian Churches and Shrines have been destroyed by the majority Albanian citizens. None have been rebuilt even though the Kosovo government (PISG) has explicitly agreed to this task. Not one in eight years? But, yet Kosovo is ready for Independence? Tens of thousands of minority owned properties have been illegally occupied and appropriated by the majority Albanian citizens with no prospect of return to the rightful owners. Yet Kosovo society is ready for Independence? Tens of thousands of hectare/acres of Serbia Orthodox Christian Church owned land has been illegally appropriated with no prospect of return. Yet Kosovo is ready for independence? Rampant crime and the center of European Heroin and Human Trafficking trade. Yet ready for independence?As to re-writing history, that is necessary when the current version is a sham. You blame Slobo for the Yugoslav wars. Excuse me, there was no war with Slovenia (in spite of what they call it), or with Macedonia. The Croats wanted war as a pretext to cleanse Serbs from their territory; nobody had been planning for war longer than them (and the Kosovan Albanians), these movements and conspiracies go back to the seventies and before, financed from the diaspora abroad. Are you going to blame Slobo for that? Bosnia was a war that the West wanted…. Croatia too, to claim Hercegovina and also to cut off the Krajina Serbs.The JNA were pulled from Bosnia almost immediately that the Bosnian war started, leaving the outnumbered Bosnian Serbs to defend themselves. Lets recall the details of that withdrawal…. The JNA in Sarajevo were in barracks in the Muslim part of town, not participating, but armed and able to defend themselves. An agreement was reached with the Muslim authorities, that if they were given safe passage, that they would leave Bosnia in convoy. Trust was critical, because once they left barracks, they were vulnerable. These soldiers had not been involved in any fighting, and their departure should have been welcomed, both militarily, and symbolically, as a statement that the JNA was not at war with Bosnia. Yes, you know what is coming next; they were massacred once they left the safety of barracks. This was a massive, seismic event, early in the war, and apart from being reported in the west on the day, was never mentioned again. The JNA was betrayed and murderously attacked by Bosnian Muslims. Ask Bush what he would do if Iranians started firing on his troops?These kind of treacherous events sent a signal to Serbs everywhere that all rules were suspended, enraged the Serb military, and maddened those who until then wanted no part. An exception was Slobo, who although accused of failing to prevent Srebrenica genocide (if it even happened, and let's face it by now Srebrenica'– Code Word to Silence Critics of US Policy in the Balkans), actually failed to prevent killings of his own people.As for hastily denying the KLA group link to al-Qaeda and other global networks is a political necessity for the proponents of Kosovo's independence, not necessarily the reality.Appearing on CNN March 26, Sen. Pat Roberts (R.Kan.) said, "I wonder a little bit about aiding the Kosovars. The people that were sitting down during the peace talks, and some of the people we've been dealing with-I'm on the Intelligence Committee as well-and they do have a connection with Osama Bin Laden, and some of the drug cartel financing is involved in that. I don't think our position now is that we want independence for the Kosovars."Last August, a Jane's publication said the CIA had traced support from Bin Laden's terrorist organization, Al Qa'ida, to Muslims fighting the Serbs in Kosovo. "Al Qa'ida supports Muslim fighters in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechnya, Tajikistan, Somalia, Yemen and now Kosovo," Jane's quoted from what it described as a CIA briefing paper. "Terrorism is a key component of Al Qa'ida's strategy, and Bin Laden cites Koranic references in an attempt to justify it."More here from US Senate Republican Policy Committee Chairman http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/fr033199.htmThe KLA, Itselfhttp://www.siri-us.com/backgrounders...-Osama.htmlhashttp://www.siri-us.com/backgrounders...Cleansing.htmlSIRIUS: The Strategic Issues Research Institute had compiled a list of official KLA communiques, ICTY transcripts and other official documents, illuminating the nature of this criminal organization. For anyone who wants to understand what really took place in Kosovo (and not the "righteous NATO ended ethnic cleansing by bombing evil Serbs and brought peace and democracy" horse-hockey the public has been fed for 8+ years), this is a must-read.And remember Fort Dix? the FBI arrested six Muslims who were planning a commando-style attack on Fort Dix in New Jersey, to "kill as many soldiers as possible," authorities said.Four of the six men are Albanians from Kosovo.Pat ourselves on the back for resettling those "rescuees" here.Interestingly enough, three of the Kosovo Albanian terrorists were roofers, just like Florin Krasniqi, Kosovo Albanian lobbyist and weapons smuggler from Brooklyn, who has provided arms, uniforms and equipment to Albanian terrorist KLA that started a war in Serbia to hijack Serbian province of Kosovo-Metohija. Krasniqi is close to a number of influential U.S. politicians, including Holbrooke and Clark and has raised over $500,000 in a single fundraiser dinner to help finance John Kerry’s U.S. presidential campaign.The fourth Kosovo Albanian Agron Abdullahu has been trained as a sniper shooter in the terrorist KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) in Serbian Kosovo province, according to the Justice Department documents. CNN reported that Abdullahu ran from Kosovo-Metohija during the 1998-1999 war against Serbia and was sheltered with his family in the Fort Dix Army base, where he could gain direct knowledge of the facilities. In other words, forget the “pizza delivery” taleBut watch the Fort Dix story go away faster than the one about the Bosnian Muslim who killed five Americans and injured another four in Salt Lake City for Valentine's Day three months ago. Who even knows that at least two of the 9/11 hijackers were veterans of the Bosnian jihad, as Muslim sources now openly call it?Reports NBC: "The alleged terror cell is described by investigators as disciples of Osama Bin Laden. Among the evidence seized was the downloaded will and testament of two Sept. 11 hijackers…On the videotape there is significant discussion of martyrdom."As I always say, Damn those Serbs! Good thing we were busy deporting those and not these ones who are trying to kill us -- such as the killer Bosnian Sulejman Talovic in Salt Lake City or, for example, Agron Abdullahu (one of the six arrested ), who was a sniper in Kosovo and residing here legally.But those Balkan people were supposed to be only nominal Muslims! Secular, we were told. Europeans, they said. Non-practicing, too. They may have been such under Communism, but soon enough they found themselves and their faith. That we threw our support behind the region's radicals, with whom the "nominal" Muslims also cast their secessionist lot -- in Bosnia as well as in Kosovo -- didn't help either. And, of course, you don't have to be a practicing Muslim to feel that universal Muslim sense of grievance against the non-Muslim world.Meanwhile, our lawmakers continue to support an independent Kosovo, no longer as the multi-ethnic experiment it was originally sold as, but as an example of America using its "military might to create a Muslim country" in Europe, as Congressman Robert Wexler, D-FL, said recently. It appears that the jihadists whom Messrs. Wexler and Lantos had hoped would take note of our kind gesture, have done so.What we've wrought in the Balkans truly is poetry in motion. The timing on these arrests, on the heels of the STATE-DEPARTMENT-SPONSORED tour of the Kosovo mufti couldn't have been better. But no doubt the damage control machine is kicking into gear from the mufti-led State Dept. and our Albanian-bought politicians such as Tom Lantos, Eliot Engel, Joe Lieberman, John McCain, Wesley Clark and -- what the heck -- let's dig up the earliest Albanian purchase: Bob Dole, after whom a street is named in Kosovo. The imperiled soldiers of Fort Dix and the other military bases that were being considered for the attack thank you all!So, let's continue pushing for Kosovo independence, giving the Albanian Muslims massive monetary support and covert assistance while they continue cleansing the remaining non-Albanian-Muslim population. This Fort Dix plot is just another tiny bump on the road to burying this hot potato. Of course, it may get a little harder next month to wash our hands of all this business, since that's when John R. Schindler's book Unholy Terror: Bosnia, Al-Qa'ida, and the Rise of Global Jihad comes out.Schindler is professor of strategy at the Naval War College and a former National Security Agency analyst and counterintelligence officer. In an e-mail to me, he said this book should finally blow the lid off the aggressively ignored Balkans mess. His book deals mainly with Bosnia, but that serves as a good reference point for Kosovo as well. From Amazon.com:This book provides the missing piece in the puzzle of al-Qa'ida's transformation from an isolated fighting force into a lethal global threat: the Bosnian war of 1992 to 1995. John R. Schindler reveals the unexamined role that radical Islam played in that terrible conflict -- and the ill-considered contributions of American policy to al-Qa'ida's growth.…Schindler exposes how Osama bin Laden exploited the Bosnian conflict for his own ends and the disturbing level of support the U.S. government gave to the Bosnian mujahidin…[which] contributed to blowback of epic proportions: Khalid Sheikh Muhammad (the mastermind of 9/11) and two of the 9/11 hijacker pilots were veterans of the Bosnian jihad.…John R. Schindler served for nearly a decade with the National Security Agency -- work which took him to many countries in support of U.S. and allied forces operating in the Balkans -- and was NSA's top Balkans expert. He is uniquely qualified to demonstrate* how the Bosnian conflict has been misrepresented by the mainstream media, covering up the large role played by radical Islam and al-Qa'ida;* how Osama bin Laden used Bosnia as a base for terrorist operations worldwide--including attacks on the United States from the Millennium Plot to 9/11;* how veterans of the Bosnian jihad have murdered thousands of Americans and conducted terrorist attacks around the world;* how the Clinton administration, in collaboration with Iran, secretly supplied Bosnia's mujahidin, including al-Qa'ida, with millions of dollars of weapons and supplies;* how America's Bosnian allies have been in covert alliances with radical anti-American regimes in several countries;* why Bosnia and its secret jihad matter to America and our War on Terrorism today.But noo why should we expose Balkans intervention, and the security risk posed to us by it . Because when you don't stop to figure out the historical context of a conflict that will tell you who the actual aggressor is; when you don't corroborate horror stories by the complainant; when you don't try to figure out which belligerent happens to also be hostile to your own society; and you instead go full throttle for a cheap moral victory and a Pulitzer, the bad guys will get you next.But, again, let's don't put two and two together. To help us move along-nothing-to-see-here are the authorities:While authorities are glad to have arrested them, the individuals are "hardly hard core terrorists," one law enforcement source said.Another source said that while the allegations are "troubling," they are "not the type that made the hair on the back of your neck stand up."Heck, they were just going after expendable military personnel. Besides, targeting Yugoslavia's police and military installations was a favorite Albanian hobby throughout 1980s and '90s Kosovo.
do MP.netCitarEnjoy this bit of light reading:http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/kosovo/undword.htmThat's the Human Rights Watch report on the KLA.The ICTY in 2005 indicted Ramush Haradinaj (a senior KLA commander) and several of his sub-ordinates on 37 counts of war crimes, exemplary of a campaign of ethnic cleansing he supervised against Serbs, Roma and other ethnic minorities in Kosovo. Here is the source: http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/engli ... 50224e.htm
Enjoy this bit of light reading:http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/kosovo/undword.htmThat's the Human Rights Watch report on the KLA.The ICTY in 2005 indicted Ramush Haradinaj (a senior KLA commander) and several of his sub-ordinates on 37 counts of war crimes, exemplary of a campaign of ethnic cleansing he supervised against Serbs, Roma and other ethnic minorities in Kosovo. Here is the source: http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/engli ... 50224e.htm
E os dados das Nações Unidas?E os dados demográficos ?E as mentiras sobre o exodo ?E as mentiras sobre o "Berço da Nação Sérvia" ?As opiniões pessoais de x ou de Y, têm o valor que têm.
E os dados das Nações Unidas?E os dados demográficos ?E as mentiras sobre o exodo ?E as mentiras sobre o "Berço da Nação Sérvia" ?
O problema, é que você apresentou neste fórum e concordou com a ideia de que os Kosovares de étnia albanesa não têm direito à independência porque imigraram para o Kosovo, que era uma terra Sérvia.Eu expliquei que os direitos sérvios foram perdidos quando os sérvios mostraram que não tinham respeito nenhum pelas outras etnias da antiga Jugoslávia, quando produziram massacres como os de Serbrenica.
É Serbrenica, são os 6.000 assassinados pelos sérvios, é a mentira do exodo, é a mentira histórica do "Berço da Nação Sérvia", é o facto de os sérvios serem um povo odiado nos Balcãs, desde há séculos, por causa da ideia persistente da "Grande Sérvia".
Eu falei ainda no final dos anos 90 com eslovenos, que tinham acabado de se tornar independentes na altura, e falaram-me da mania dos Sérvios com a "Grande Sérvia". Depois os kosovares diziam a mesma coisa. E isto são afirmações na primeira pessoa, não é de ouvir ou ver algo escrito num recôndito site na internet, onde as mentiras e as invenções são o pão nosso de cada dia.
Há um problema com a Sérvia, como há com todos os povos que se acham no direito de dominar e escravizar os outros.
Os neo-soviéticos e os neo-nazistas mentem. Há centenas de sites neo-nazis e neo-soviéticos que se dedicam a fabricar mentiras e meias verdades.
Você não pode ignorar os números, você não pode ignorar as estatísticas das Nações Unidas, Você não tem o direito de ignorar as mais simples e elementares regras da aritmética para negar o óbvio:Os Sérvios estão a mentir, você está a mentir, e a única razão porque o faz, é por preconceito.