[Viajante]

[Viajante]

[Pedro E.]

Adivinhem quem e que bloqueou nos anos 30 o pacto russo-reino unido/franca contra a alemanha nazi?
 Comeca por P e acaba em A, tem 7 sete letras


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34369487

Sergey Andreyev said Poland had blocked a coalition against Nazi Germany several times in the run-up to war.

In an interview with a private Polish TV station aired on Friday evening, Mr Andreyev said that Poland had stood in the way of an alliance against the Nazis.

[olisipo]

Adivinhem quem e que bloqueou nos anos 30 o pacto russo-reino unido/franca contra a alemanha nazi?
 Comeca por P e acaba em A, tem 7 sete letras


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34369487

Sergey Andreyev said Poland had blocked a coalition against Nazi Germany several times in the run-up to war.

In an interview with a private Polish TV station aired on Friday evening, Mr Andreyev said that Poland had stood in the way of an alliance against the Nazis.

Adivinhem quem era Sergey Andreyev: o embaixador russo na Polônia, e o que disse depois:



Russia's Envoy to Poland Withdraws World War II Remarks

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russias-envoy-to-poland-withdraws-world-war-ii-remarks-49870

[Pedro E.]

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russias-envoy-to-poland-withdraws-world-war-ii-remarks-49870

WARSAW — Russia's ambassador to Poland has partly backtracked from an accusation that Poland bears some blame for starting World War II because of its policies in the 1930s, words that outraged Poles.

Sergei Andreyev said Monday he had no intention of offending the Polish nation and added: "I regret that I wasn't sufficiently precise." But he also said there had been an "unfair interpretation" of his words.

e Andreyev tem razao pois a segunda guerra mundial nao comecou em 1939 com a invasao da polonia pela alemanha, mas sim em 1938 com a anexacao da austria

quanto ao destino da polonia em 1939, o embaixador russo esta mais do que certo, pois a polonia so se pode queixar dela mesma, visto que opos-se a alianca sovietica-franca-reino unido contra a alemanha nazi

"Polish policy led to the disaster in September 1939, because during the 1930s Poland repeatedly blocked the formation of a coalition against Hitler's Germany. Poland was therefore partly responsible for the disaster which then took place," Andreyev said.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/08/22/23-august-1939.html

 

During the 1930s Poland played a spoiler’s role. It was a far-right quasi-dictatorship, anti-Semitic and sympathetic to fascism. In 1934 as the USSR raised the alarm about Hitler, Poland signed a non-aggression pact in Berlin. Who stabbed who in the back? France had a formal alliance with Poland and felt betrayed. Until 1939 Poland did all it could to sabotage Soviet efforts to build an anti-Nazi alliance, based on the World War I anti-German coalition of France, Britain, Italy, and in 1917 the United States. It may surprise, but Maksim Litvinov, the Soviet Commissar for Foreign Affairs, saw fascist Italy as part of a defensive alliance against Hitlerite Germany. Litvinov also wanted to bring Poland into his anti-Nazi coalition, and in 1934 warned his Polish counterpart, Józef Beck, of the danger of Hitler. Beck laughed him off.

Poland felt itself caught between two hostile great powers, but of the two, the USSR was by far its «worst enemy». These were old lines; Polish Russophobia dated back many centuries. In 1934-1935, when the USSR sought a mutual assistance pact with France, Poland attempted to obstruct it. In 1938, during the Czechoslovak crisis, Foreign Minister Beck said that if Hitler was to get the Sudeten territories, Poland should have the Teschen district. In other words, if Hitler gets his booty, we Poles want ours. Litvinov accused Beck of playing into the hands of Hitler, but Beck laughed him off again. Poland was Hitler’s accomplice in 1938 before becoming his victim in 1939.

http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=90

8 May 1939
 The United Kingdom rejected what would be the last Soviet request to form a British-French-Soviet pact to contain German aggression.

27 May 1939
 British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain finally agreed to hold a talk with the Soviet Union. Later on the same day, British and French ambassadors in Moscow, Russia presented a draft agreement for Soviet Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov to review, who received the wording coolly.

31 Jul 1939
Neville Chamberlain spoke before the House of Commons of the British Parliament, noting that he was engaging in talks with the Soviet Union as a means to contain German aggression.

14 Aug 1939
 In Russia, the British-French delegation negotiated with Kliment Voroshilov for a potential treaty to contain German aggression; Voroshilov wanted the western powers to convince Poland to agree to allow Soviet troops to move into Polish territory to counterattack a potential German invasion, but the British and the French knew it was something the Polish leadership was adamantly against.

18 Aug 1939
 German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop pushed for his visit to the Soviet Union, offering Soviet Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov favorable terms in terms of spheres of influence in Eastern Europe. Meanwhile, the Soviet Union's negotiation with the western powers stalled again as Polish Foreign Minister Józef Beck continued to resist allowing Soviet entry into Polish territory even in the face of a German invasion.

21 Aug 1939
French Prime Minister Édouard Daladier ordered his representatives in Russia to speed up negotiations with the Soviet Union; since Poland would not agree to Soviet troops within its borders, the French representatives were given the authority to accept a miltiary treaty excluding Poland. Soviet representative Kliment Voroshilov noted to the British and the French that if Poland was unwilling to allow Soviet troops to cross its borders, then there was little point for the Soviet Union to be a part of this military alliance.

[olisipo]

O senhor parece estar a brincar. Usar como fonte para analisar as relaçôes entre a União Soviética e a Polônia "Strategic-culture.org", que é um site russo com base em Moscovo.

https://toinformistoinfluence.com/2016/01/05/kremlin-disinfo-by-pepe-escobar-propagated-strategic-culture-org-nwoo-org/

[Pedro E.]

certo, porque a unica fonte de informacao que fala a verdade e a que vem dos e.ua e companhia nao e?

a sua tendencia para ser tao superficial, ja ficou evidente ha muito tempo.
quem escreveu o artigo do strategic culture?
Michael Jabara Carley, um professor de historio canadiano que se dedica a assuntos da uniao sovietica e o ocidente

como ja sabia que vinha com a infantilidade intelectual da origem da fonte ( os trolls nunca se ocupam com o conteudo) e que deixei
o outro link que corrobora o primeiro.

o outro forista nao sabe geografia, a si o conselho que lhe dou e para ir estudar historia

[olisipo]

Algums dos últimos artigos publicados em Strategic-culture.org de Moscovo por Michael Jabala Carley: "Past is prelude: Stalin Was Right About National Defence" (I e Ii), "NATO: Knaves, Lunatics and Yellowbellies". Sem comentarios.

[Pedro E.]

Duvido que tenha lido os textos do Michael Jabala Carley. Senao em vez de titulos o senhor tinha citado parte dos artigos que lhe causaram azia. Acertei em cheio. O Olisipo e um superficial. Sao ja alguns anos a lidar com traumatizados do comunismo que perecebem zero do que e a russia actual.

Adiante com o topico de discussao. A Polonia vetou o acordo entre sovieticos e britanicos e franceses para fazerem frente a alemanha nazi. Vejam bem se isto nao e para rir. A Polonia que rejeitou esse acordo, tinha um pacto de nao agressao com a alemanha,  depois e invadida pela alemanha, a inglaterra declara guerra a hitler, mas nada faz para salvar a polonia. A polonia diz-se traida por franceses e ingleses. a inglaterra estranhamente nao declara guerra a uniao sovietica e sao estes ultimos que no fim tem que derrotar o monstro nazi quando avanca para as suas fronteiras. e os sovieticos e que sao os maus da fita?

[Pedro E.]

ate um historiador mainstream sabe da proposta sovietica a franceses e ingleses para combater a alemanha nazi. proposta essa que foi rejeitada porque polacos vetaram o plano - nao queriam tropas sovieticas no seu territorio.

Second World War, Antony Beevor, p 20-21
http://www.goodreads.com/reader/60144-the-second-world-war?return_to=%2Fbook%2Fshow%2F13528287-the-second-world-war

On 18 April, Stalin put the British and French governments to the test by offering an alliance with a pact promising assistance to any central European country threatened by an aggressor. The British were uncertain how to react. The first instinct of both Lord Halifax, the foreign secretary, and Sir Alexander Cadogan, his permanent under­secretary, was to consider the Soviet démarche to be ‘mischievous’ in intent. Chamberlain feared that to agree to such a move would simply provoke Hitler. In fact it spurred the Führer to seek his own accord with the Soviet dictator. In any case, the Poles and the Romanians were suspicious. They rightly feared that the Soviet Union would demand access for Red Army troops across their territory. The French, on the other hand, having seen Russia as their natural ally against Germany since before the First World War, were much keener on the idea of a Soviet alliance. They felt that they could not move without Britain, and so applied pressure on London to agree to joint military talks with the Soviet regime. Stalin was unimpressed by the hesitant British reaction, but he also had his own secret agenda of pushing the Soviet frontiers further west. He already had his eye on Romanian Bessarabia, Finland, the Baltic states and eastern Poland, especially the parts of Belorussia and Ukraine ceded to Poland after its victory in 1920. The British, finally accepting the necessity of a pact with the Soviet Union, only began to negotiate towards the end of May. But Stalin suspected, with a good deal of justification, that the British government was playing for time.He was even less impressed by the Franco-­British military delegation which departed on 5 August aboard a slow steamer to Leningrad. General Aimé Doumenc and Admiral Sir Reginald Plunkett-­Ernle-­Erle-­Drax lacked any power of decision. They could only report back to Paris and London. Their mission was in any case doomed to failure for other reasons. Doumenc and Drax faced an insuperable problem with Stalin’s insistence on the right of transit for Red Army troops across Polish and Romanian territory. It was a demand which neither country would countenance. Both were viscerally suspicious of Communists in general and of Stalin above all. Time was slipping away as the fruitless talks continued into the second half of August, yet even the French, who were desperate for a deal, could not persuade the government in Warsaw to concede on this point. The Polish commander-­in-­chief, Marshal Edward S ́migły-Rydz, said that ‘with the Germans we risk the loss of our liberty, but with the Russians we lose our soul’.

Face a este virar de costas do ocidente nao restou mais a uniao sovietica  do que estabelecer um plano de defesa que nao pusesse em causa os seus interesses. o pacto molotov-ribbentrop garantiu a nao agressao entre alemaes e sovieticos por dois anos ate ser quebrado pela raposa nazi quando iniciou a operacao barbarossa em 1941.

[Lusitano89]

[Lusitano89]

[Lusitano89]

O Pacto Ribbentrop/Molotov. A falsa união entre o Comunismo e Nazismo

[Lusitano89]

[Lusitano89]