[tenente]

Tirando o véu:

 A capacidade ASW deve ser esta:

 

 É um sonar passivo rebocável,    novo, que ainda estava em testes .
foi  instalado num NPO2000 para ser testado durante um exercício NATO.

 

SEA's anti-submarine warfare solution triumphs in Portuguese NATO trial


SEA has successfully completed sea trials of its innovative Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) System with the Portuguese Navy
 
The KraitSense™ low-profile passive sonar system detected tracked and classified a submarine whilst deployed from a Portuguese Navy offshore patrol vessel (OPV).

SEA’s KraitSense installed onto a Portuguese OPV in just two days at the dockside. To enable the effective analysis of the ASW environment, SEA’s sonar analysis and integrated maritime awareness software (provided by OSI) was also installed to provide a fully integrated solution fully integrated with the vessel’s other data systems.

Peter added, “The trial was also an opportunity for SEA to test a new long tow cable to help reduce the impact of engine noise that is generated by smaller vessels. We’re pleased to say that this was extremely successful, further demonstrating that KraitSense provides a cost-effective ASW solution for navies of all sizes.”

Instalado em dois dias !!!
Maravilha das tecnologias modulares !!!
E o armamento para depois do sub detectado ??
Qual vai ser??
Não me façam rir mais, mas que gentinha competente.
Falem com os Dinamarqueses que eles explicam como se faz.
Cambada de artolas.

Abraços

[ICE 1A+]

Tirando o véu:

 A capacidade ASW deve ser esta:

 

 É um sonar passivo rebocável,    novo, que ainda estava em testes .
foi  instalado num NPO2000 para ser testado durante um exercício NATO.

 

SEA's anti-submarine warfare solution triumphs in Portuguese NATO trial


SEA has successfully completed sea trials of its innovative Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) System with the Portuguese Navy
 
The KraitSense™ low-profile passive sonar system detected tracked and classified a submarine whilst deployed from a Portuguese Navy offshore patrol vessel (OPV).

SEA’s KraitSense installed onto a Portuguese OPV in just two days at the dockside. To enable the effective analysis of the ASW environment, SEA’s sonar analysis and integrated maritime awareness software (provided by OSI) was also installed to provide a fully integrated solution fully integrated with the vessel’s other data systems.

Peter added, “The trial was also an opportunity for SEA to test a new long tow cable to help reduce the impact of engine noise that is generated by smaller vessels. We’re pleased to say that this was extremely successful, further demonstrating that KraitSense provides a cost-effective ASW solution for navies of all sizes.”

Instalado em dois dias !!!
Maravilha das tecnologias modulares !!!
E o armamento para depois do sub detectado ??
Qual vai ser??
Não me façam rir mais, mas que gentinha competente.
Falem com os Dinamarqueses que eles explicam como se faz.
Cambada de artolas.

Abraços

Vamos ter que perguntar ao caro Subsea7 se o pacote vem completo:

Krait Defence System has four options:

KraitSense
Passive Towed Array
• Underwaterthreatdetection • Easyshipfit
• Smallfootprintondeck
• Smalldiameter
• Lowweight&drag
• Lowpowerconsumption

KraitSearch
Active Acoustic Search
KraitSensecapabilitiesplus:
• Underwater threat localisation • Modular ASW solution
• Single-sourced hardware
and software
• Reliable, proven technology


KraitShield
Acoustic Decoy System
Combined KraitSense and KraitSearch capabilities plus:
• Protection against torpedoes
• Programmable
acoustic decoys
• Single or multi-tube decoy launchers
• Multi-purposelaunchers


KraitStrike
Lightweight Torpedo Launcher
Combined KraitSense, KraitSearch and KraitShield capabilities plus:
• Single or multi-tube torpedo launchers • Compatible with NATO
lightweight torpedoes
• A complete ASW solution.

[tenente]

Tirando o véu:

 A capacidade ASW deve ser esta:

 

 É um sonar passivo rebocável,    novo, que ainda estava em testes .
foi  instalado num NPO2000 para ser testado durante um exercício NATO.

 

SEA's anti-submarine warfare solution triumphs in Portuguese NATO trial


SEA has successfully completed sea trials of its innovative Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) System with the Portuguese Navy
 
The KraitSense™ low-profile passive sonar system detected tracked and classified a submarine whilst deployed from a Portuguese Navy offshore patrol vessel (OPV).

SEA’s KraitSense installed onto a Portuguese OPV in just two days at the dockside. To enable the effective analysis of the ASW environment, SEA’s sonar analysis and integrated maritime awareness software (provided by OSI) was also installed to provide a fully integrated solution fully integrated with the vessel’s other data systems.

Peter added, “The trial was also an opportunity for SEA to test a new long tow cable to help reduce the impact of engine noise that is generated by smaller vessels. We’re pleased to say that this was extremely successful, further demonstrating that KraitSense provides a cost-effective ASW solution for navies of all sizes.”

Instalado em dois dias !!!
Maravilha das tecnologias modulares !!!
E o armamento para depois do sub detectado ??
Qual vai ser??
Não me façam rir mais, mas que gentinha competente.
Falem com os Dinamarqueses que eles explicam como se faz.
Cambada de artolas.

Abraços

Vamos ter que perguntar ao caro Subsea7 se o pacote vem completo:

Krait Defence System has four options:

KraitSense
Passive Towed Array
• Underwaterthreatdetection • Easyshipfit
• Smallfootprintondeck
• Smalldiameter
• Lowweight&drag
• Lowpowerconsumption

KraitShield
Acoustic Decoy System
Combined KraitSense and KraitSearch capabilities plus:
• Protection against torpedoes
• Programmable
acoustic decoys
• Single or multi-tube decoy launchers
• Multi-purposelaunchers


KraitStrike
Lightweight Torpedo Launcher
Combined KraitSense, KraitSearch and KraitShield capabilities plus:
• Single or multi-tube torpedo launchers • Compatible with NATO
lightweight torpedoes
• A complete ASW solution.

Pois, ele sabe com aquele nick o homem deve ser dos submarinos ou dos submersiveis.

Cheers

[dc]

Já se sabe que os NPOs estarão limitados ao sonar rebocado e mais nada. Mas pelo menos é alguma coisa, melhor que nada, desde que sejam apenas para complementar as fragatas.

https://www.sea.co.uk/maritime/products/krait-defence-system/

[RABN]

Tirando o véu:

 A capacidade ASW deve ser esta:

 

 É um sonar passivo rebocável,    novo, que ainda estava em testes .
foi  instalado num NPO2000 para ser testado durante um exercício NATO.

 

SEA's anti-submarine warfare solution triumphs in Portuguese NATO trial


SEA has successfully completed sea trials of its innovative Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) System with the Portuguese Navy
 
The KraitSense™ low-profile passive sonar system detected tracked and classified a submarine whilst deployed from a Portuguese Navy offshore patrol vessel (OPV).

SEA’s KraitSense installed onto a Portuguese OPV in just two days at the dockside. To enable the effective analysis of the ASW environment, SEA’s sonar analysis and integrated maritime awareness software (provided by OSI) was also installed to provide a fully integrated solution fully integrated with the vessel’s other data systems.

Peter added, “The trial was also an opportunity for SEA to test a new long tow cable to help reduce the impact of engine noise that is generated by smaller vessels. We’re pleased to say that this was extremely successful, further demonstrating that KraitSense provides a cost-effective ASW solution for navies of all sizes.”

Instalado em dois dias !!!
Maravilha das tecnologias modulares !!!
E o armamento para depois do sub detectado ??
Qual vai ser??
Não me façam rir mais, mas que gentinha competente.
Falem com os Dinamarqueses que eles explicam como se faz.
Cambada de artolas.

Abraços

Vamos ter que perguntar ao caro Subsea7 se o pacote vem completo:

Krait Defence System has four options:

KraitSense
Passive Towed Array
• Underwaterthreatdetection • Easyshipfit
• Smallfootprintondeck
• Smalldiameter
• Lowweight&drag
• Lowpowerconsumption

KraitShield
Acoustic Decoy System
Combined KraitSense and KraitSearch capabilities plus:
• Protection against torpedoes
• Programmable
acoustic decoys
• Single or multi-tube decoy launchers
• Multi-purposelaunchers


KraitStrike
Lightweight Torpedo Launcher
Combined KraitSense, KraitSearch and KraitShield capabilities plus:
• Single or multi-tube torpedo launchers • Compatible with NATO
lightweight torpedoes
• A complete ASW solution.

Pois, ele sabe com aquele nick o homem deve ser dos submarinos ou dos submersiveis.

Cheers

Critiquem a mensagem e não o mensageiro.
O Subsea7 veio dar um importante contributo ao forum com as informações que trouxe, e que até nos permitem desenvolver mais o tema em discussão. Sim, percebe-se que o forista em questão é alguem da marinha ou ligado à mesma, mas isso não o torna no responsável pelos problemas da Marinha nem queiram fazer dele um bode expiatório. Aproveitemos a informação e discutam-se os temas relevantes que a mesma trás em vez de se apontar o dedo ao forista com desdém pelas informações que trás ou justificações que procurou dar.

[Stalker79]

Tambem se diga de passagem que detectar um submarino e depois não poder fazer nada ou ainda virar um alvo do mesmo não ajuda em nada....
Um lançador de torpedos já faria qualquer submarino pensar duas vezes antes de chegar á beira mesmo de um NPO.
 

[tenente]

Tirando o véu:

 A capacidade ASW deve ser esta:

 

 É um sonar passivo rebocável,    novo, que ainda estava em testes .
foi  instalado num NPO2000 para ser testado durante um exercício NATO.

 

SEA's anti-submarine warfare solution triumphs in Portuguese NATO trial


SEA has successfully completed sea trials of its innovative Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) System with the Portuguese Navy
 
The KraitSense™ low-profile passive sonar system detected tracked and classified a submarine whilst deployed from a Portuguese Navy offshore patrol vessel (OPV).

SEA’s KraitSense installed onto a Portuguese OPV in just two days at the dockside. To enable the effective analysis of the ASW environment, SEA’s sonar analysis and integrated maritime awareness software (provided by OSI) was also installed to provide a fully integrated solution fully integrated with the vessel’s other data systems.

Peter added, “The trial was also an opportunity for SEA to test a new long tow cable to help reduce the impact of engine noise that is generated by smaller vessels. We’re pleased to say that this was extremely successful, further demonstrating that KraitSense provides a cost-effective ASW solution for navies of all sizes.”

Instalado em dois dias !!!
Maravilha das tecnologias modulares !!!
E o armamento para depois do sub detectado ??
Qual vai ser??
Não me façam rir mais, mas que gentinha competente.
Falem com os Dinamarqueses que eles explicam como se faz.
Cambada de artolas.

Abraços

Vamos ter que perguntar ao caro Subsea7 se o pacote vem completo:

Krait Defence System has four options:

KraitSense
Passive Towed Array
• Underwaterthreatdetection • Easyshipfit
• Smallfootprintondeck
• Smalldiameter
• Lowweight&drag
• Lowpowerconsumption

KraitShield
Acoustic Decoy System
Combined KraitSense and KraitSearch capabilities plus:
• Protection against torpedoes
• Programmable
acoustic decoys
• Single or multi-tube decoy launchers
• Multi-purposelaunchers


KraitStrike
Lightweight Torpedo Launcher
Combined KraitSense, KraitSearch and KraitShield capabilities plus:
• Single or multi-tube torpedo launchers • Compatible with NATO
lightweight torpedoes
• A complete ASW solution.

Pois, ele sabe com aquele nick o homem deve ser dos submarinos ou dos submersiveis.

Cheers

Critiquem a mensagem e não o mensageiro.
O Subsea7 veio dar um importante contributo ao forum com as informações que trouxe, e que até nos permitem desenvolver mais o tema em discussão. Sim, percebe-se que o forista em questão é alguem da marinha ou ligado à mesma, mas isso não o torna no responsável pelos problemas da Marinha nem queiram fazer dele um bode expiatório. Aproveitemos a informação e discutam-se os temas relevantes que a mesma trás em vez de se apontar o dedo ao forista com desdém pelas informações que trás ou justificações que procurou dar.

RABN, vamos ficar com a conversa, por aqui sem mais comentários, porque ainda gostaria de saber onde o meu caro, foi desencantar essa do desdém.

Cumprimentos

[Lightning]

Ou lhe instalam uma coisa deste tipo.


Ou chamam o 112

[tenente]

Ou lhe instalam uma coisa deste tipo.


Ou chamam o 112

A colocação de um sistema de torpedos, seria uma das melhorias passiveis de serem atribuídas  aos futuros NPO's.

Abraços

[dc]

Ainda assim o NPO, enquanto plataforma, não deverá ser o navio mais adequado para ASW. Quanto muito terá a sua utilidade num conceito de "letalidade distribuída", alargando a capacidade anti-submarina a mais meios, ao invés de apenas 5 fragatas e 2 submarinos. Desde que não seja "vendido" como fragata, tudo bem. Fazia sentido era o pacote completo, com os engodos e os torpedos.

Francamente vejo utilidade apenas em cenários muito específicos, por exemplo na caça a algum submarino nas nossas águas, onde ter um maior número de meios à caça é claramente vantajoso.

[tenente]

Ainda assim o NPO, enquanto plataforma, não deverá ser o navio mais adequado para ASW. Quanto muito terá a sua utilidade num conceito de "letalidade distribuída", alargando a capacidade anti-submarina a mais meios, ao invés de apenas 5 fragatas e 2 submarinos. Desde que não seja "vendido" como fragata, tudo bem. Fazia sentido era o pacote completo, com os engodos e os torpedos.

Francamente vejo utilidade apenas em cenários muito específicos, por exemplo na caça a algum submarino nas nossas águas, onde ter um maior número de meios à caça é claramente vantajoso.

Epá mas se o NPO foi vendido á opinião pública como navio não combatente, vem agora os especialistas, de um momento para o outro, vender a ideia que estes seis NPO's serão navios com capacidades combatentes, e ainda por cima construídos por menos de 60 milhões/unidade ??

Mas que alterações serão feitas ao projecto para, de repente, o mesmo modelo de navio passar de não combatente para combatente ??
Se atentar-mos á classe River batch II, as alterações que foram implementadas nos navios desta e subsequentes series, para serem capazes de suportar maiores danos, num combate, foram tais que a lista que as comporta elenca pelo menos trinta items/alterações.
Vai o NPO MKIII ser sujeito a alterações que permitam que sustenha mais danos para se poder enquadrar na classe de navios combatentes ??
Pelos tais 60 milhões/unidade a minha pessoa não acredita !!

Since the first information was published about the second batch of the River-class patrol ships, officially referred to as Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs), I have felt that they have been widely misunderstood. I believe they could be a much more significant development than is generally believed.

The origin of the R2s is, as is well known, the BAE Systems 90 m OPVs that have been sold to Brazil (three, originally built for Trinidad and Tobago) and Thailand (one, with a second now on order and perhaps more to come). I shall refer to this design as the BAES OPV. It is well known that the first three R2s will cost much more than the three BAES OPVs that ended up with Brazil (which is using them intensively, by the way, often on international missions).

The figure for the R2s has been given as £348-million, while the three BAES OPVs that Brazil bought cost £155-million.

Now, the first key point to note is that both the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and BAES have stated that the design of the R2s is “based on” that of the 90 m OPV. “Engineers at BAE Systems have modified the design to meet the requirements of the Royal Navy,” said BAES in a press release dated 8 June 2015. This means that the R2s are not the same design as the BAES OPVs. They may look the same externally, but internally they are going to be different.



The question is: how different?

Let us look at the list of changes again:-

Watertight integrity modifications (also described as improved watertight integrity)
Fire safety modifications
Enhanced firefighting facilities
Automatic emergency lights
Flight Deck Officer position
Domestic refrigeration modifications
Sewage treatment plant modifications
Ballast water modifications
Merlin helicopter operation (ie strengthening the flight deck to be able to land a Merlin helicopter on it)
Helicopter in-flight refuelling
Helicopter refuelling modifications
Changes to ship’s minimum operating temperature
Davit modifications
Force protection weapons modifications (replacing 2×25 mm with 2×7.62 mm Mk 44 Gatling guns)
Installation of WECDIS/WAIS (WECDIS stands for Warship Electronic Chart Display and Information System; WAIS might stand for Wide Area Information System. This seems to be an improved version of the system fitted to HMS Clyde.)
Install Combat Management System (CMS), and the new RN standard BAES “Shared Infrastructure” which will equip the RN’s entire surface fleet over the next nine/ten years (this integrates ship sensor, weapons and management systems using a common console system).
Military communications modifications
Magazine protection (if my memory serves me correctly, this involves the fitting of Kevlar armour)
Radio equipment room modifications
Change lighting and domestic power voltage from 115 v to 230 v
Codification of equipment
Provision of life saving equipment
Replace navigation radars (fit the Kelvin Hughes Sharpeye)
Install military GPS
Install flight deck landing grid
Fuel efficiency monitoring
Provide emergency communication equipment
Machinery space walkway
The Ministry of Defence and BAES also report that the R2s will have increased stowage space.

Finally, originally it was proposed that the exhaust system be modified, but reportedly that has been determined to be no longer required.

Before going further, this list bears examining in terms of what it tells us about the BAES OPV design, or more precisely, their reduced operational capabilities. Most notably, their reduced watertight integrity, basic fire fighting facilities and the lack of protection for the magazines. This emphasizes that standard OPVs, like the BAES 90 m, are not designed for combat. They are naval vessels, but definitely not warships. They can handle smugglers, pirates and small-scale terrorist groups, but nothing greater than that (including major terrorist movements). It’s not about armament, it’s about their inability to absorb battle damage.

Enthusiasts for upgunning OPVs tend to forget this.

A 76 mm gun system with an unprotected magazine could turn an OPV into a death trap if it got caught up in a real shoot out, even if the opponent had lighter calibre weapons. A 76 mm gun is useful for intimidating modern large, ocean-going fishing vessels that may be bent on poaching, and so is a valid option for, example, the Irish Naval Service (which has no corvettes, let alone frigates) but it carries the risk that politicians will see the OPV as more powerful than it really is and order deployments in areas where it should not go. Generally, many online commentators have dismissed the modifications to the BAES OPV design to convert it into the R2 design as being secondary or not important enough to justify the greatly increased price tag.

https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2016/06/thoughts-batch-2-river-class/

Abraços

[HSMW]

Before going further, this list bears examining in terms of what it tells us about the BAES OPV design, or more precisely, their reduced operational capabilities. Most notably, their reduced watertight integrity, basic fire fighting facilities and the lack of protection for the magazines. This emphasizes that standard OPVs, like the BAES 90 m, are not designed for combat. They are naval vessels, but definitely not warships. They can handle smugglers, pirates and small-scale terrorist groups, but nothing greater than that (including major terrorist movements). It’s not about armament, it’s about their inability to absorb battle damage.

Enthusiasts for upgunning OPVs tend to forget this.

A 76 mm gun system with an unprotected magazine could turn an OPV into a death trap if it got caught up in a real shoot out, even if the opponent had lighter calibre weapons. A 76 mm gun is useful for intimidating modern large, ocean-going fishing vessels that may be bent on poaching, and so is a valid option for, example, the Irish Naval Service (which has no corvettes, let alone frigates) but it carries the risk that politicians will see the OPV as more powerful than it really is and order deployments in areas where it should not go. Generally, many online commentators have dismissed the modifications to the BAES OPV design to convert it into the R2 design as being secondary or not important enough to justify the greatly increased price tag.

Meu Tenente, tenho de salientar esta parte!!! 

[tenente]

Before going further, this list bears examining in terms of what it tells us about the BAES OPV design, or more precisely, their reduced operational capabilities. Most notably, their reduced watertight integrity, basic fire fighting facilities and the lack of protection for the magazines. This emphasizes that standard OPVs, like the BAES 90 m, are not designed for combat. They are naval vessels, but definitely not warships. They can handle smugglers, pirates and small-scale terrorist groups, but nothing greater than that (including major terrorist movements). It’s not about armament, it’s about their inability to absorb battle damage.

Enthusiasts for upgunning OPVs tend to forget this.

A 76 mm gun system with an unprotected magazine could turn an OPV into a death trap if it got caught up in a real shoot out, even if the opponent had lighter calibre weapons. A 76 mm gun is useful for intimidating modern large, ocean-going fishing vessels that may be bent on poaching, and so is a valid option for, example, the Irish Naval Service (which has no corvettes, let alone frigates) but it carries the risk that politicians will see the OPV as more powerful than it really is and order deployments in areas where it should not go. Generally, many online commentators have dismissed the modifications to the BAES OPV design to convert it into the R2 design as being secondary or not important enough to justify the greatly increased price tag.

Meu Tenente, tenho de salientar esta parte!!! 

O Sr Manda.

[dc]

Pelos tais 60 milhões por navio, não deve dar para grande coisa. Os navios deviam estar simplesmente mais aptos para missões de combate a pirataria e afins. ASW, num navio lento e barulhento, sem capacidade de resistir a danos, não vale de muito. O sonar rebocado, com ou sem torpedos, servirá no máximo como complemento da capacidade de busca dos restantes meios.

Mesmo com os engodos e os torpedos, vai ser sempre complicado, pois um submarino moderno, armado com mísseis anti-navio, consegue atacar o nosso NPO com extrema facilidade a uma distância segura, sem que o nosso navio tenha sequer capacidade de detecção e resposta ao míssil. Sem radar para detectar o míssil, nem CIWS ou sistema AA ou EW para o abater/enganar, torna-se difícil.

[JohnM]

Relativamente às valências de capacidades ASW e MCM dos novos NPO, acho mais que desejável e óbvio que  sejam constituidas por meio modulares não orgânicos, tais como sonares rebocados contentorizados (como este da SEA), os pacotes MCM e de vigilância subaquática actualmente a serem desenvolvios no âmbito do PESCO ou mesmo algo como o SPIMM para luta à pirataria. Adquirindo dois ou três de cada um destes módulos chega e sobra para o que se pretende que os NPO façam. A meu ver, a grande evolução a nível de meios organicos seria a possibilidade de embarcarem orgânicamente um os dois UAV de médio porte, como o Schiebel Campcoter S-100, com autonomia de 6 horas e possibilidade inclusivamente de levar um par de LMM para assustar piratas...

Eu sei que esta não é uma opinião muito popular por aqui, mas os NPO NÃO SÃO NAVIOS DE COMBATE... são meios navais de vigilância e policiamento... por exemplo, não passa pela cabeça de ninguém enviar um NPO caçar submarinos só proque tem um sonar rebocado; o NPO com este módulo serve enventualmente para fazer vigilância anti-submarina costeira numa situação de conflito em que os meios navais de combate estejam cometidos noutros lugares, por exemplo, em forças-tarefa NATO. Se fôr detectado um submarino, o ataque pode e deve ser efectuado por outros meios, nomeadamente os P-3... é este o conceito de letalidade distribuída, esqueçam torpedos nos NPO... parem de querer que os NPO sejam uma coisa que não foram desenhados para ser, porque se fossem ainda ficávamos com menos fragatas e submarinos...