Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama

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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1380 em: Abril 18, 2021, 10:43:56 am »
Esqueçam a "Marinha": aquilo não passa de um embuste.
Aquilo já não existe, portanto não percam tempo. Falar da Marinha Portuguesa, hoje,não passa de mera e inútil metafísica.
Passem para outra: a mudança do sistema.
Ai de ti Lusitânia, que dominarás em todas as nações...
 
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asalves

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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1381 em: Abril 19, 2021, 06:36:51 pm »
Dá para ser mais mini AB do que uma F110?



Alguém reparou nas 4 x 12,7mm estão a ver como somos uns iluminados e estamos muito a frente.
 

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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1382 em: Abril 21, 2021, 09:05:07 am »
Citar

The FDI (Frégate de Défense et d'Intervention) in "Hellenic Navy" configuration. It features 32 VLS for ASTER surface to air missiles and a RAM launcher as CIWS. Combined with its SeaFire radar, the FDI HN is a heavily armed surface combatant. Naval Group image.

In Details: Naval Group’s Frigate Proposal To Greece

French shipbuilder Naval Group is proposing its new FDI for the Hellenic Navy frigate requirement. Four frigates in a special "Hellenic Navy" configuration are part of a wider package offer by the shipbuilder, who partnered with MBDA and Thales...
Xavier Vavasseur 21 Apr 2021

To fully answer the Hellenic Navy needs, the "FDI HN" comes with 32 VLS for ASTER surface to air missiles and a RAM launcher.

It recently surfaced that the Hellenic Navy need was not limited to new-built frigates. Their need is so urgent that they require a “stop-gap” solution (consisting in the procurement of second-hand vessels or a lease of existing vessels) as well as an upgrade to the in-service Hydra-class frigates.

We previously reported on the proposals from several competitors (details and links at the end of this article). This time around, we contacted Naval Group to learn more about the French proposal to Greece. Laurent Mourre, Vice President of Sales for Europe at Naval Group answered our questions.

Naval News – Can you please detail Naval Group’s offer in terms of new ships ?

Laurent Moure – The French offer is a comprehensive and robust package designed to ensure Greece has the best capabilities in the shortest timeframe with optimised costs.

For the new ships, we offer the FDI HN (Hellenic Navy) which is the most modern new generation frigate.

The 4 units will be delivered in a very tight timeframe. The first frigate will be built in Lorient and in service by 2025, and the 3 others built in Greece will follow in 2027, 2028and 2029.

Naval Group has a long track record of successful transfers of technology across the world. The frigates will be co-produced in Greece, with significant involvement of the French team. Construction of the 1st frigate in France will ensure delivery to the Hellenic Navy in the shortest timeframe and secure the transfer of technology to allow construction of the other 3 frigates in Greece. The transfer of technology will ensure long-term autonomy for HN and significant economic benefits for the Hellenic naval and defence industries and for the supply chain in Greece.

Naval News – What is Naval Group proposing for the interim (gap filler) solution ? Which former French Navy ships are being proposed ?

Laurent Moure – The French Navy is proposing a strong gap filler solution with 2 frigates available in less than a year and at no cost.

AAW frigate Jean-Bart and ASW frigate Latouche-Tréville are currently in service in the French Navy and have prestigious operational records. They will be available for the Hellenic Navy in early 2022 after extensive maintenance and regeneration works.

The main mission of AAW frigate Jean-Bart is to carry out area anti-aircraft warfare, for the benefit of a naval air force with warships, including an aircraft carrier and possibly commercial ships.

The main missions of ASW Frigate Latouche-Tréville are Anti-submarine warfare on high seas and protection of high value units.

They have been engaged in national operations, but also for joint operations and exercise with NATO and EU forces demonstrating the capabilities and interoperability. They will be in service within the Hellenic Navy in 2022, ensuring a smooth transition with the FDI HN.

Naval News – What about the Hydra-class upgrade ?

Laurent Moure – The systems on-board the MEKO 200HN frigates will be fully interoperable will all NATO and EU fleets, including the FDI HN who like all Naval Group frigates are capable of assuming all multimission roles within any kind of allied NATO fleet and obviously within the HN fleet.

Naval News – Can you shed light on the Hellenic Navy configuration of the FDI ?

Laurent Moure – The FDI is a multi-mission frigate designed to serve as the backbone of a first rank and operational navy. She is the most modern frigate of her category and responds to all HN operational needs. Ordered by the French Navy, FDI will have the same missions than the FREMM frigate inside Aircraft Carrier Group.

She has been designed to deal with the latest threats, and her physical and digital infrastructures guarantee an evolutionary potential that will ensure that the Hellenic Navy will be able to deal with emerging and future threats over the life of the ship (UAVs, Cyber, anti-ship ballistic missiles, hypersonic missiles, stealth threats underwater or above water, etc.).

The FDI HN will be a power and sovereignty asset for Greece. The final configuration will be the decision of the Greek authorities, but she will offer unrivalled capabilities for the permanent control of air and sea space and autonomy of action, in support of the political and military objectives set. Like all Naval Group frigates, the FDI HN will be fully interoperable with NATO and EU fleets. She will be capable of assuming all mission roles within any kind of allied fleet and within the HN fleet.

The FDI HN is a compendium of the best technologies from the European defence industries Thales, MBDA and Naval Group. The 32 Aster missiles onboard can be engaged very quickly in all directions and ensure an unmatched hit-to-kill capability, making it possible to defeat saturating attacks. RAM, as CIWS capability, will be integrated into the FDI HN Combat System to provide 360 degrees short range protection against incoming missiles in addition to the 76 mm gun, completing the long-range protection provided by ASTER missiles

This makes the FDI HN the only frigate offered to the Hellenic Navy capable of protecting efficiently shore facilities, cities and Greek islands.

Naval News – Have you visited shipyards in Greece? Have you identified local partners already?

Laurent Moure – It is in Naval Group’s culture to select credible and reliable local partners when entering a country. The group has a long history of conducting transfers of technology and know-how in major complex industrial programs all over the world.

Greek shipyards and the Greek naval industry have demonstrated their capacities in the past.  The French team has designed a very ambitious industrial cooperation plan that will contribute to the revitalization of a profitable naval industry while significantly increasing Greece’s autonomy and sovereignty. It will reinforce the international recognition of the excellence of the Greek naval industry while providing the best high-end “Made in Greece” warships to defend the country’s citizens and interests.

We have visited the shipyards and met with many industry partners. More than Ten Greek companies have already been pre-qualified and lots of others are in the process of being pre-qualified. We have also signed partnerships with three universities.

To further our survey of potential Greek partners, a Naval Group Task Force will be based in Athens for the next 2 months.

Naval News – Is the French government supporting your bid ? Do you have French or European partners for this bid ?

Laurent Moure – Yes, this bid is a Team France effort between Naval Group, Thales and MBDA and is fully supported by French authorities.

Laurent Mourre wanted to add the following:

Beyond reinforcing the strong ties between France and Greece, the French offer addresses all the current and future needs of the Hellenic Navy. It ensures the Hellenic Navy will operate the best frigates in the shortest timeframe with a Gap filler solution available in less than a year and the first new frigate as soon as 2025. It also ensures the success of the “Made in Greece” frigates as Naval Group is the only bidder with such a track-record of successful transfer of technologies. The French offer also goes beyond the frigate program with an extensive cooperation plan to revitalise the Hellenic naval industry, ensuring several hundreds of highly qualified jobs and generating long-term economic spin-offs in Greece for decades to come.

For the record, France and Greece were involved in exclusive negotiations for a while, for two FDI type frigates. However, despite the signing of an LOI in October 2019, Greece decided to keep its options open and is now considering several designs. The designs being considered today, in addition to Naval Group’s FDI, are:

Lockheed Martin with the MMSC
Navantia with the F110
Damen Sigma 11515
Babcock with the Type 31/Arrowhead
TKMS with the MEKO A200NG (or MEKO A300)
Fincantieri (allegedly with the FREMM)
The procurement process doesn’t seem to be a “classic open tender” but rather government to government (G to G) discussions with each party.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/04/in-details-naval-groups-frigate-proposal-to-greece/
"[Os portugueses são]um povo tão dócil e tão bem amestrado que até merecia estar no Jardim Zoológico"
-Dom Januário Torgal Ferreira, Bispo das Forças Armadas
 

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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1383 em: Abril 26, 2021, 08:02:03 am »
Seria uma boa oportunidade tentar caçar a fragata M, a Van Speijk, que os Holandeses vão encostar, este ano, pois tem menos um ano que as nossas e está muito melhor equipada.
Seria uma boa aquisição em segunda mão de modo a reforçar a fraca força naval de combate de superfície, que possuimos.
Se se abortasse o mlu das VdG haveria verba suficiente para a adquirir, penso que cerca de 80 milhões traria a fragata para a nossa Marinha, sendo um negócio bem melhor que gastar 80 milhões no Patolas.

https://marineschepen.nl/nieuws/Personeelstekort-Van-Speijk-tegen-de-kant-220421.html

HNLMS Van Speijk will go against the side from the summer, the Ministry of Defense announced this morning. There is not enough personnel to be able to sail the ships.


HNLMS Van Speijk. (Photo: Jaime Karremann / Marineschepen.nl)

Following the reports on the budget and personnel shortages in the navy, the Ministry of Defense today announced a decision illustrating the consequences of the shortages. "HNLMS Van Speijk will be relieved earlier than planned. The cause is a serious shortage of personnel. The crew was informed about this yesterday," Defense reported on the website this morning .

According to Defense, the crew of the Van Speijk often had to raid other ships. "All surface vessels are faced with shortages," writes Defense, "with a lack of technical personnel as the biggest obstacle."

The Van Speijk is not the first ship to go ashore due to staff shortages. OPVs and LCFs have also been abandoned in the past. In December mine hunter HNLMS went to work. Urk against the side, that ship will be decommissioned this year. The Van Speijk was kept at sea with art and flying work, with a greatly reduced crew.

A memorandum previously analyzed by De Telegraaf and Marineschepen.nl showed that the personnel shortage cannot be solved just like that. Personnel retention is a problem, recruitment of technicians is difficult, but the navy does not even have the budget to pay much more personnel.

Now that the Van Speijk is out of service, the frigate from 1995 could go into maintenance, but that maintenance ispostponed until 2023 because there is no money for maintenance.

Without sufficient staff and without money for maintenance, the future of the Van Speijk is uncertain. It is unclear whether the navy has plans for decommissioning. What is certain is that both HNLMS Van Speijk as Hr.Ms. Van Amstel have been included in an offer for the Hellenic Navy .


Abraços
« Última modificação: Abril 26, 2021, 08:04:01 am por tenente »
Quando um Povo/Governo não Respeita as Suas FFAA, Não Respeita a Sua História nem se Respeita a Si Próprio  !!
 
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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1384 em: Abril 28, 2021, 11:56:47 am »
Deixem-me sonhar...

7. Todos os animais são iguais mas alguns são mais iguais que os outros.

 
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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1385 em: Abril 28, 2021, 12:01:49 pm »
Deixem-me sonhar...



Olha que, olha que.....parece que já esteve mais longe !!

Abraços
Quando um Povo/Governo não Respeita as Suas FFAA, Não Respeita a Sua História nem se Respeita a Si Próprio  !!
 
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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1386 em: Abril 28, 2021, 12:46:10 pm »
Possivelmente a melhor opção para a realidade portuguesa. 2 dessas mais a Van Speijk, e substituíamos de vez as VdG.  8)
 
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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1387 em: Abril 28, 2021, 12:57:27 pm »
Vamos esperar para ver quem ganha na Grécia... se não forem os holandeses, é claro que no mínimo a van Speijk e, bem conversadinho, a van Amstel, ficam disponíveis...
 
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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1388 em: Abril 28, 2021, 02:00:45 pm »
Deixem-me sonhar...



Olha que, olha que.....parece que já esteve mais longe !!

Abraços

Se viessem as Type 31 oferecia-me para ser o primeiro a apanhar a primeira bola de golf que caísse ao Tejo, só para me castigar da má língua 

« Última modificação: Abril 28, 2021, 02:04:19 pm por Pescador »
 
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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1389 em: Abril 28, 2021, 02:07:58 pm »
Só não vêm se não quiserem... é só adicionar um sonar de casco, substituir o NS 100 por NS 200 e os Sea Ceptor por 16xMK-41 e temos uma excelente fragata GP por menos de 500 milhões... a versão AAW deve ficar por uns 600-650 milhões e poderia vir mais tarde...
 
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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1390 em: Abril 28, 2021, 02:16:15 pm »
Anda a correr um rumor pelo Alfeite nos últimos dias que aponta para que a Grécia tenha recentemente indagado sobre o estado das VdG, de modo informal...
Saudações Aeronáuticas,
Charlie Jaguar

"(...) Que, havendo por verdade o que dizia,
DE NADA A FORTE GENTE SE TEMIA
"

Luís Vaz de Camões (Os Lusíadas, Canto I - Estrofe 97)
 
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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1391 em: Abril 28, 2021, 02:24:51 pm »
Anda a correr um rumor pelo Alfeite nos últimos dias que aponta para que a Grécia tenha recentemente indagado sobre o estado das VdG, de modo informal...
Isso era o ideal... os gregos estão aflitos com a falta de navios quando enviarem as suas próprias Meko para MLU, tanto que faz parte dos requisitos do concurso das novas fragatas o fornecimento de dois navios usados a curto prazo. Adquirir as 3 VdG e inseri-las no ciclo de modernização grego é um “no-brainer”... assim talvez conseguíssemos ir buscar as duas M e o JdW à Holanda...
 
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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1392 em: Abril 28, 2021, 02:28:41 pm »
Anda a correr um rumor pelo Alfeite nos últimos dias que aponta para que a Grécia tenha recentemente indagado sobre o estado das VdG, de modo informal...

Fico triste, e eu a pensar que ficavamos com as VdG mais vinte anos para baterem os records de longevidade.  :(

Abraços
Quando um Povo/Governo não Respeita as Suas FFAA, Não Respeita a Sua História nem se Respeita a Si Próprio  !!
 
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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1393 em: Abril 28, 2021, 02:33:31 pm »
Anda a correr um rumor pelo Alfeite nos últimos dias que aponta para que a Grécia tenha recentemente indagado sobre o estado das VdG, de modo informal...

Para quê!? Será que não tem sucata ultrapassada que chegue lá na Grecia!?
 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 

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Re: Substituição das Fragatas Classe Vasco da Gama
« Responder #1394 em: Abril 28, 2021, 02:34:56 pm »
Só não vêm se não quiserem... é só adicionar um sonar de casco, substituir o NS 100 por NS 200 e os Sea Ceptor por 16xMK-41 e temos uma excelente fragata GP por menos de 500 milhões... a versão AAW deve ficar por uns 600-650 milhões e poderia vir mais tarde...


e trocar o 57 pelo 76
 
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