[papatango]

Pessoalmente, nem acredito que tenhamos em Portugal regionalismos.
O que temos é algo mais simples mas que pode ser perigoso.

O que vemos, são os bairrismos exacerbados de forma a parecerem regionalismos, com o objetivo de criar um qualquer caudilho regional.

Mas como digo, não me parece que a questão tenha especial relevância no que respeita a modernizações das forças armadas...

O problema, como o vejo, é que a estrutura que existe neste momento, se tivesse meios humanos e materiais adequados, já seria capaz de não envergonhar ninguém.

Mas para isso precisava de por um lado, meios navais com capacidade de transporte efectivo. Ou seja, um navio logistico e um navio RoRo, que pupdesse colocar forças em qualquer lugar rapidamente.

No caso de um conflito com a Russia, sinceramente acho que deveriamos esquecer o transporte maritimo porque isso é correr demasiados riscos.
Precisamos de coisas simples, como por exemplo um numero de camiões e atrelados capazes de transportar as viaturas de um ponto A para um ponto B em pouco tempo.
meios modernizados para alimentar um determinado numero de militares durante alguns dias sem depender de estruturas adicionais.
Mobilidade, mobilidade e mobilidade.

Precisávamos de reservas de guerra, que poderiam ter passado por manter os M-60 e moderniza-los para manter reservas em caso de necessidade, com o mesmo tipo de armamento, e precisávamos de ter Pandur equipadas com armamento eficaz e não com uma metralhadora 12.7mm a lista continua e continua e continua...

[Lightning]

Pelo que sei, quando o ministro Paulo Portas bateu com a porta ao A400, não foram abandonados todos os projetos relacionados, o que explicará a situação atual.

Alguns projectos da Airbus em Portugal (mesmo que envolva componentes do A400M), são contrapartidas pela compra dos C295.

[Charlie Jaguar]

Germanys €100 Billion military shopping list

Following agreement between the coalition parties and the CDU/CSU on the 100-billion-euro special fund for the German armed forces, the Ministry of Defense has presented parliament with an initial list of the projects planned to be procured with the money. Unsurprisingly, these are projects that the armed forces have been putting off for years - because funding for them has not yet been secured.

In addition to the already well-known major projects such as the F-35 fighter jet to replace the aging Tornado fleet, the heavy transport helicopter (STH) to replace the 50-year-old CH-53 helicopters and the major gap in air defense, the list presented on Monday includes numerous defense procurements that the ministry had already mentioned a good year ago - with the comment that these are projects whose financing is not secured at the present time.

These include the digitization of communications, which has been pending for years, especially in the Army, but also in the Joint Support Service and the Medical Service; further modern infantry fighting vehicles, ground-based air defense and the so-called heavy infantry weapon carrier, the Boxer transport tank with automatic cannon.

Air capabilities (€40.9 Billion)

Unsurprisingly, the largest financial volume of the planned procurements via this special fund is accounted for by projects in the air dimension: The development and procurement of aircraft is one of the most expensive items in the armaments sector. Around 40.9 billion euros of the total volume of 100 billion euros are earmarked for this. The main points (with comment where appropriate):

    Successor to the Tornado fighter jet - on the one hand, the U.S. model F35, primarily for so-called nuclear sharing, the use of U.S. nuclear weapons by German pilots. But also the development and procurement of the Eurofighter in the so-called ECR variant (Electronic Combat Recconaissance) for electronic warfare.

    The procurement of the heavy transport helicopter - the choice is likely to fall on the CH-47F Chinook model from Boeing, at a cost of around six billion euros

    Additional light support helicopters - to date, some 15 Airbus H145M helicopters (photo above) are in service with the Special Forces; this type of helicopter is to be made available to the Bundeswehr in far greater numbers

    Ground-based air defense, the entire spectrum from defense against small drones to missile defense

    A so-called space-based early warning system - this is a cross-national EU project called TWISTER

    The procurement of the P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft from Boeing, which has already begun (at this point, as with the support helicopter, it is apparent that the listing does not follow the traditional division among the branches of the armed forces: the planned five P-8s will be operated by the navy, but as aircraft they fall into this dimension)

    The Future Combatr Air System (FCAS), planned jointly with France and Spain. At this point, there is a note in the list that only the funds for the next five years will be available for this project from the special assets and will have to be covered by the normal defense budget thereafter).

    The arming of Israeli drones of the type Heron TP - already decided by the parliament

    as well as further communications and radar systems and an expansion of space surveillance.

Command and control Capabilities (€20.7 Billion)

The second-largest item, also not surprisingly, is the so-called command and control capability at around 20.7 billion euros - in simple terms: communications, digitized and encrypted (a current problem for the Bundeswehr, especially in cooperation with NATO allies). To this end, the special fund will primarily finance:

    The Digitization of Land-Based Operations (DLBO) project in the so-called basic expansion stage, which primarily means the procurement of new radio equipment.

    As part of the DLBO project, the expansion of command posts with command and control systems and radios

    a Tactical Wide Area Network (TAWAN)

    a data center network

    expansion of satellite communications (SATCOMBw)

    the so-called German Mission Network, a network for foreign missions and operations outside Germany, including for the Navy

    and, out of the catalog so to speak, additional PRC-117G radios

Maritime capabilities (€19.3 Billion)

In terms of volume, the maritime dimension comes in third place - floating platforms are mentioned here in particular, but also missile systems. 19.3 billion are to be procured, among other things:

    More K130 corvettes

    The new F126 frigates (it is not specified how many there will ultimately be)

    The U212 CD (Common Design) submarine developed jointly with Norway

    Development and procurement of the Future Naval Strike Missile

    IDAS anti-submarine missile

    SONIX underwater detection system

    Multi-purpose combat boats

        New rigid hull inflatable boats

Land capabilities (€16.6 Billion)

Projects worth 16.6 billion euros are planned for the land dimension. (Even if this sounds comparatively little compared to air and sea: A not inconsiderable part of the investments for the land forces are included in the digitization item). The main projects envisaged are:

    The retrofitting of all existing Puma infantry fighting vehicles to the level currently already envisaged for NATO spearhead operations.

    A successor to the roughly 50-year-old Marder infantry fighting vehicle - conspicuous at this point: there is only talk of the Marder successor, but no statement is made about a possible second batch of the Puma

    The heavy weapon carrier infantry, i.e. the already above mentioned Boxer with automatic cannon

    A successor for the Fuchs armored transport vehicle

    A successor for the so-called over-snow vehicles, the Hägglung BV206, as a joint project with the Netherlands, Great Britain and Sweden

    New air-deployable vehicles and airborne platforms, as a joint project with the Netherlands

    The so-called Main Ground Combat System (MGCS), effectively the successor to the previous main battle tanks, as a joint project with France. As with the FCAS, this project is to be financed only temporarily from the special fund and then from the normal defense budget

    Modern, deployable operational hospitals (Role 2b highly mobile, Airborne Rescue Center Light, Airborne Rescue Center Special Operations).

Clothing and personal equipment (€2 Billion)

Around 2 billion euros are to be made available from the special assets for clothing and personal equipment. Larger orders for procurements such as combat boots and protective equipment had already been approved by parliament in advance; night-vision equipment will be added, among other things.

R&D for AI (€0.5 Billion)

This is the smallest item, but it is nevertheless remarkable that it is listed individually in the list for the special fund: Around 500 million euros are to be spent on research and development for artificial intelligence. This primarily involves navigation under so-called navigation warfare (NAVWAR) conditions, such as the interference with satellite signals, and the monitoring and securing of larger areas.

Not included on the overview is munitions, whose replenishment requirement, according to the ministry, is around 20 billion euros. Obviously, this item will have to be covered from the current budget, unless new missile projects are involved.

The project list is to be updated annually. In any case, as is customary for special assets, a business plan must be drawn up regularly for the 100 billion package. This, like all individual armaments projects with a volume of more than 25 million euros, must be approved by the members of parliament.

Por cá continua tudo na mesma.

Junta aí à lista alemã mais 7 Boeing P-8A Poseidon, para um total de 12 aeronaves que a Marinha Germânica pretende ter ao serviço.

https://www.nord24.de/landkreis-cuxhaven/weitere-siebenbundeswehr-neue-fernaufklaerer-fuer-nordholz-79526.html

[Charlie Jaguar]

Por cá a lista está a ser feita e será apresentada na cimeira da NATO no fim do mês.
Posso dizer que há vontades interessantes e meios "espetáculares" mas sem os EUR da UE, simplesmente não virá nada.

E há mesmo vontade para isso, para se começar a encarar a Defesa Nacional como algo fundamental num Estado de Direito que se quer sério, ou é a tal história de que de boas intenções está o Inferno cheio?

[P44]

Por cá a lista está a ser feita e será apresentada na cimeira da NATO no fim do mês.
Posso dizer que há vontades interessantes e meios "espetáculares" mas sem os EUR da UE, simplesmente não virá nada.

E há mesmo vontade para isso, para se começar a encarar a Defesa Nacional como algo fundamental num Estado de Direito que se quer sério, ou é a tal história de que de boas intenções está o Inferno cheio?

Mas ainda tens dúvidas que é a segunda hipótese?

Mais uma novela de faz de conta para estrangeiro ver, e depois não vai dar em nada

[NVF]

A Alemanha necessita desses 12 Neptune porque tem uma das maiores ZEE do mundo… not!

[Red Baron]

A Alemanha necessita desses 12 Neptune porque tem uma das maiores ZEE do mundo… not!

De acordo com o ministro, “esta excitação bélica nunca dá bom resultado”. Azeredo Lopes fundamenta que “Portugal tem preferido não valorizar demasiado aquilo que a ser demasiado valorizado só favorece os nossos adversários”.

[Charlie Jaguar]

De acordo com o ministro, “esta excitação bélica nunca dá bom resultado”. Azeredo Lopes fundamenta que “Portugal tem preferido não valorizar demasiado aquilo que a ser demasiado valorizado só favorece os nossos adversários”.

Mas alguém ainda ouve com seriedade o que diz essa figura do Azeredo Lopes?

Ouvi-lo com atenção é o mesmo que ter o Cabrita a falar de prevenção rodoviária ou de fogos florestais, têm 0 de credibilidade. 

[Kalil]

Germanys €100 Billion military shopping list

Following agreement between the coalition parties and the CDU/CSU on the 100-billion-euro special fund for the German armed forces, the Ministry of Defense has presented parliament with an initial list of the projects planned to be procured with the money. Unsurprisingly, these are projects that the armed forces have been putting off for years - because funding for them has not yet been secured.

In addition to the already well-known major projects such as the F-35 fighter jet to replace the aging Tornado fleet, the heavy transport helicopter (STH) to replace the 50-year-old CH-53 helicopters and the major gap in air defense, the list presented on Monday includes numerous defense procurements that the ministry had already mentioned a good year ago - with the comment that these are projects whose financing is not secured at the present time.

These include the digitization of communications, which has been pending for years, especially in the Army, but also in the Joint Support Service and the Medical Service; further modern infantry fighting vehicles, ground-based air defense and the so-called heavy infantry weapon carrier, the Boxer transport tank with automatic cannon.

Air capabilities (€40.9 Billion)

Unsurprisingly, the largest financial volume of the planned procurements via this special fund is accounted for by projects in the air dimension: The development and procurement of aircraft is one of the most expensive items in the armaments sector. Around 40.9 billion euros of the total volume of 100 billion euros are earmarked for this. The main points (with comment where appropriate):

    Successor to the Tornado fighter jet - on the one hand, the U.S. model F35, primarily for so-called nuclear sharing, the use of U.S. nuclear weapons by German pilots. But also the development and procurement of the Eurofighter in the so-called ECR variant (Electronic Combat Recconaissance) for electronic warfare.

    The procurement of the heavy transport helicopter - the choice is likely to fall on the CH-47F Chinook model from Boeing, at a cost of around six billion euros

    Additional light support helicopters - to date, some 15 Airbus H145M helicopters (photo above) are in service with the Special Forces; this type of helicopter is to be made available to the Bundeswehr in far greater numbers

    Ground-based air defense, the entire spectrum from defense against small drones to missile defense

    A so-called space-based early warning system - this is a cross-national EU project called TWISTER

    The procurement of the P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft from Boeing, which has already begun (at this point, as with the support helicopter, it is apparent that the listing does not follow the traditional division among the branches of the armed forces: the planned five P-8s will be operated by the navy, but as aircraft they fall into this dimension)

    The Future Combatr Air System (FCAS), planned jointly with France and Spain. At this point, there is a note in the list that only the funds for the next five years will be available for this project from the special assets and will have to be covered by the normal defense budget thereafter).

    The arming of Israeli drones of the type Heron TP - already decided by the parliament

    as well as further communications and radar systems and an expansion of space surveillance.

Command and control Capabilities (€20.7 Billion)

The second-largest item, also not surprisingly, is the so-called command and control capability at around 20.7 billion euros - in simple terms: communications, digitized and encrypted (a current problem for the Bundeswehr, especially in cooperation with NATO allies). To this end, the special fund will primarily finance:

    The Digitization of Land-Based Operations (DLBO) project in the so-called basic expansion stage, which primarily means the procurement of new radio equipment.

    As part of the DLBO project, the expansion of command posts with command and control systems and radios

    a Tactical Wide Area Network (TAWAN)

    a data center network

    expansion of satellite communications (SATCOMBw)

    the so-called German Mission Network, a network for foreign missions and operations outside Germany, including for the Navy

    and, out of the catalog so to speak, additional PRC-117G radios

Maritime capabilities (€19.3 Billion)

In terms of volume, the maritime dimension comes in third place - floating platforms are mentioned here in particular, but also missile systems. 19.3 billion are to be procured, among other things:

    More K130 corvettes

    The new F126 frigates (it is not specified how many there will ultimately be)

    The U212 CD (Common Design) submarine developed jointly with Norway

    Development and procurement of the Future Naval Strike Missile

    IDAS anti-submarine missile

    SONIX underwater detection system

    Multi-purpose combat boats

        New rigid hull inflatable boats

Land capabilities (€16.6 Billion)

Projects worth 16.6 billion euros are planned for the land dimension. (Even if this sounds comparatively little compared to air and sea: A not inconsiderable part of the investments for the land forces are included in the digitization item). The main projects envisaged are:

    The retrofitting of all existing Puma infantry fighting vehicles to the level currently already envisaged for NATO spearhead operations.

    A successor to the roughly 50-year-old Marder infantry fighting vehicle - conspicuous at this point: there is only talk of the Marder successor, but no statement is made about a possible second batch of the Puma

    The heavy weapon carrier infantry, i.e. the already above mentioned Boxer with automatic cannon

    A successor for the Fuchs armored transport vehicle

    A successor for the so-called over-snow vehicles, the Hägglung BV206, as a joint project with the Netherlands, Great Britain and Sweden

    New air-deployable vehicles and airborne platforms, as a joint project with the Netherlands

    The so-called Main Ground Combat System (MGCS), effectively the successor to the previous main battle tanks, as a joint project with France. As with the FCAS, this project is to be financed only temporarily from the special fund and then from the normal defense budget

    Modern, deployable operational hospitals (Role 2b highly mobile, Airborne Rescue Center Light, Airborne Rescue Center Special Operations).

Clothing and personal equipment (€2 Billion)

Around 2 billion euros are to be made available from the special assets for clothing and personal equipment. Larger orders for procurements such as combat boots and protective equipment had already been approved by parliament in advance; night-vision equipment will be added, among other things.

R&D for AI (€0.5 Billion)

This is the smallest item, but it is nevertheless remarkable that it is listed individually in the list for the special fund: Around 500 million euros are to be spent on research and development for artificial intelligence. This primarily involves navigation under so-called navigation warfare (NAVWAR) conditions, such as the interference with satellite signals, and the monitoring and securing of larger areas.

Not included on the overview is munitions, whose replenishment requirement, according to the ministry, is around 20 billion euros. Obviously, this item will have to be covered from the current budget, unless new missile projects are involved.

The project list is to be updated annually. In any case, as is customary for special assets, a business plan must be drawn up regularly for the 100 billion package. This, like all individual armaments projects with a volume of more than 25 million euros, must be approved by the members of parliament.

Por cá continua tudo na mesma.

Junta aí à lista alemã mais 7 Boeing P-8A Poseidon, para um total de 12 aeronaves que a Marinha Germânica pretende ter ao serviço.

https://www.nord24.de/landkreis-cuxhaven/weitere-siebenbundeswehr-neue-fernaufklaerer-fuer-nordholz-79526.html

Face aos respectivos GDP, a Alemanha investir 100 biliões de euros na defesa é o equivalente a Portugal abrir os cordões à bolsa e investir 6500 milhões..

[Subsea7]

Dividindo esses 6500, entre 40 % para a Marinha. 30% FA e 20 % EX.
Cps,

[Red Baron]

Seria menos uns 4000, mas Portugal não precisa de estes esquemas, basta aumentar o orçamento de Defesa para os 2%

[dc]

De acordo com o ministro, “esta excitação bélica nunca dá bom resultado”. Azeredo Lopes fundamenta que “Portugal tem preferido não valorizar demasiado aquilo que a ser demasiado valorizado só favorece os nossos adversários”.

Mas alguém ainda ouve com seriedade o que diz essa figura do Azeredo Lopes?

Ouvi-lo com atenção é o mesmo que ter o Cabrita a falar de prevenção rodoviária ou de fogos florestais, têm 0 de credibilidade. 

Realmente tem cá uma lógica o que ele diz. Uma das últimas vezes em que alguém não levou com seriedade as questões da Defesa (França antes da II Guerra Mundial, achando que a "Maginot Line" seria suficiente para travar a Alemanha Nazi), deu asneira. Mas em Portugal, somos pioneiros, e os outros países europeus é que estão errados. 

Entretanto, a Ucrânia tem-se aguentado mais ou menos bem contra a Rússia, porque desde 2014 se foi armando.

[Subsea7]

Hoje o SD dos USA pediu ao SG NATO, que todos os países invistam no mínimo 2 % do PIB...
Por cá continuar a resistir a ideia...
CPs

[Red Baron]

Hoje o SD dos USA pediu ao SG NATO, que todos os países invistam no mínimo 2 % do PIB...
Por cá continuar a resistir a ideia...
CPs

Pois os 100000 da Alemanha não chega para eles chegarem aos 2%.

[Drecas]

De acordo com o ministro, “esta excitação bélica nunca dá bom resultado”. Azeredo Lopes fundamenta que “Portugal tem preferido não valorizar demasiado aquilo que a ser demasiado valorizado só favorece os nossos adversários”.

Mas alguém ainda ouve com seriedade o que diz essa figura do Azeredo Lopes?

Ouvi-lo com atenção é o mesmo que ter o Cabrita a falar de prevenção rodoviária ou de fogos florestais, têm 0 de credibilidade. 

Realmente tem cá uma lógica o que ele diz. Uma das últimas vezes em que alguém não levou com seriedade as questões da Defesa (França antes da II Guerra Mundial, achando que a "Maginot Line" seria suficiente para travar a Alemanha Nazi), deu asneira. Mas em Portugal, somos pioneiros, e os outros países europeus é que estão errados. 

Entretanto, a Ucrânia tem-se aguentado mais ou menos bem contra a Rússia, porque desde 2014 se foi armando.

França não achava que linha Maginot era suficiente nem achava que era impenetrável. A doutrina francesa contava com a linha Maginot aguentar um ataque e ganhar tempo para mobilização em massa.