[NVF]

Eu tenho tendências para delirar, mas vocês abusam 

Espera até vir aí o outro a propor joint-ventures com as indústrias navais da Hungria e da Suíça.

[P44]

Eu tenho tendências para delirar, mas vocês abusam 

Espera até vir aí o outro a propor joint-ventures com as indústrias navais da Hungria e da Suíça.

E com a Áustria!

[mafets]

Eu tenho tendências para delirar, mas vocês abusam 

Espera até vir aí o outro a propor joint-ventures com as indústrias navais da Hungria e da Suíça.

Brinca, Brinca mas em termos de LFC e até draga minas ... 

Shutterstock
Minesweeper Navy Ship Hungarian Defence Forces Flottila

In case you ever wondered, Switzerland does have a (kind of) navy...!

https://imgur.com/r/military/mkrDgXU

Cumprimentos 

P.S. Já agora da Austria... 

Baltic Workboats AS (BWB), based in the Estonian island of Saaremaa, is assembling 19 assault boats for the Austrian Armed Forces.

https://news.err.ee/116503/saaremaa-shipyard-building-navy-for-austria

P.S. 2 / Já agora e sobre o fundamental, dinheiro: https://expresso.pt/politica/2020-10-13-Defesa-com-menos-23-milhoes-em-relacao-ao-previsto-no-OE-para-este-ano?fbclid=IwAR0W4n41qNcU6m9x8bnA_MbbDcaM25mHSovtXr15e-agBDjlwde9E_vRpqg

[Cabeça de Martelo]

Houston, we have a problem


The PeSCo’s European Patrol Corvette (EPC) programme gains momentum
 03/10/2020 EDA, EU, European Patrol Corvette, France, Greece, Italy, PESCO, Portugal, Spain
By Luca Peruzzi

Under the European Union’s Permanent Structured Cooperation (PeSCO) framework, the European Patrol Corvette (EPC) programme is advancing and enlarging the EU member states participation. Italy is the programme coordinating country of the EPC programme, which sees also the participation of France, Greece and Spain as Participant Member States (pMS). During the Defence iQ (a division of IQPC) OPV International 2020 virtual conference, speaking about the PPA (Pattugliatori Polivalenti d’Altura) multirole patrol (combatant) vessels as well as the EPC programme, Italian Navy General Staff representatives highlighted the recent joining of Portugal into the latter programme as observer nation. Since the letter of intent signature between Italy and France in June 2019, the programme approval within the 3rd wave of PeSCo projects came in November 2019. The European Patrol Corvette programme objective is to design and develop a new family of military (NATO War Limited Ship) vessels, based on a mono-hull concept, which allows to host several systems and payloads, in order to accomplish, with a modular and flexible approach, a large number of tasks and missions, from combat to presence and surveillance. After the kickoff meeting in May 2020, with the participation of representatives of all the participant member states and of the European Defence Agency (EDA), activities are underway aimed at formalizing the designation of the EDA as the institutional framework for common requirements definition and harmonization . According to the presentation, the EPC is expected to be developed in at least three main versions, including a patrol version aimed to meet Italian and Spanish requirements, a long range version for France and a combat version for Greece. More details will be provided in a follow-on article to be published soon.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/the-pescos-european-patrol-corvette-epc-programme-gains-momentum

[Viajante]

Houston, we have a problem


The PeSCo’s European Patrol Corvette (EPC) programme gains momentum
 03/10/2020 EDA, EU, European Patrol Corvette, France, Greece, Italy, PESCO, Portugal, Spain
By Luca Peruzzi

Under the European Union’s Permanent Structured Cooperation (PeSCO) framework, the European Patrol Corvette (EPC) programme is advancing and enlarging the EU member states participation. Italy is the programme coordinating country of the EPC programme, which sees also the participation of France, Greece and Spain as Participant Member States (pMS). During the Defence iQ (a division of IQPC) OPV International 2020 virtual conference, speaking about the PPA (Pattugliatori Polivalenti d’Altura) multirole patrol (combatant) vessels as well as the EPC programme, Italian Navy General Staff representatives highlighted the recent joining of Portugal into the latter programme as observer nation. Since the letter of intent signature between Italy and France in June 2019, the programme approval within the 3rd wave of PeSCo projects came in November 2019. The European Patrol Corvette programme objective is to design and develop a new family of military (NATO War Limited Ship) vessels, based on a mono-hull concept, which allows to host several systems and payloads, in order to accomplish, with a modular and flexible approach, a large number of tasks and missions, from combat to presence and surveillance. After the kickoff meeting in May 2020, with the participation of representatives of all the participant member states and of the European Defence Agency (EDA), activities are underway aimed at formalizing the designation of the EDA as the institutional framework for common requirements definition and harmonization . According to the presentation, the EPC is expected to be developed in at least three main versions, including a patrol version aimed to meet Italian and Spanish requirements, a long range version for France and a combat version for Greece. More details will be provided in a follow-on article to be published soon.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/the-pescos-european-patrol-corvette-epc-programme-gains-momentum

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/the-pescos-european-patrol-corvette-epc-programme-gains-momentum-2

"...Italian Navy General Staff representatives highlighted the recent joining of Portugal into the latter programme as observer nation."

[dc]

Tuga be like:

[LM]

Tuga be like:

E permite ajudas de custo... relatórios, deslocações... 

[mafets]

Somos peritos a desembolsar o carcanhol e "ficar a ver navios".  É LPD, é AOR, nem as Marlin do NRP Setúbal e Sines "a gente vê"...





Cumprimentos

[typhonman]

Houston, we have a problem


The PeSCo’s European Patrol Corvette (EPC) programme gains momentum
 03/10/2020 EDA, EU, European Patrol Corvette, France, Greece, Italy, PESCO, Portugal, Spain
By Luca Peruzzi

Under the European Union’s Permanent Structured Cooperation (PeSCO) framework, the European Patrol Corvette (EPC) programme is advancing and enlarging the EU member states participation. Italy is the programme coordinating country of the EPC programme, which sees also the participation of France, Greece and Spain as Participant Member States (pMS). During the Defence iQ (a division of IQPC) OPV International 2020 virtual conference, speaking about the PPA (Pattugliatori Polivalenti d’Altura) multirole patrol (combatant) vessels as well as the EPC programme, Italian Navy General Staff representatives highlighted the recent joining of Portugal into the latter programme as observer nation. Since the letter of intent signature between Italy and France in June 2019, the programme approval within the 3rd wave of PeSCo projects came in November 2019. The European Patrol Corvette programme objective is to design and develop a new family of military (NATO War Limited Ship) vessels, based on a mono-hull concept, which allows to host several systems and payloads, in order to accomplish, with a modular and flexible approach, a large number of tasks and missions, from combat to presence and surveillance. After the kickoff meeting in May 2020, with the participation of representatives of all the participant member states and of the European Defence Agency (EDA), activities are underway aimed at formalizing the designation of the EDA as the institutional framework for common requirements definition and harmonization . According to the presentation, the EPC is expected to be developed in at least three main versions, including a patrol version aimed to meet Italian and Spanish requirements, a long range version for France and a combat version for Greece. More details will be provided in a follow-on article to be published soon.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/the-pescos-european-patrol-corvette-epc-programme-gains-momentum

Fragatas queriam eles...

[dc]

E permite ajudas de custo... relatórios, deslocações... 

Se são 4 milhões ou lá o que é para 2 anos na Holanda, imagino as "férias pagas" por 3 ou 4 países da Europa durante os próximos 10 anos... Sim, porque o programa das EPC não dará frutos nos próximos 2 ou 3 anos. 

E mesmo que entrássemos directamente no programa, as VdG continuariam a navegar no mínimo até 2030, ou seja, 10 anos com navios completamente obsoletos.

Fragatas queriam eles...

Não virá nada no fim de contas, porque já é o habitual. Mas na hipótese de adquirirmos estes navios, seriam uma boa opção para "segunda-linha", desde que depois se adquirissem fragatas de 5000 toneladas AAW.

[JohnM]

Bem, parece que, como seria de esperar, o que se está a perfilar é substituir as VdG (os navios para operações de baixa e média intensidade, segundo o CEMA) por fragatas ligeiras EPC e as BD por FSC... dependendo do armamento e sensores que colocarem nas EPC, pode não ser nada mau...

Ab

[dc]

No entanto mantém-se o "elephant in the room", que são as datas, o upgrade de treta das VdG e a capacidade de combate praticamente nula das nossas Meko (com ou sem o dito MLU) no presente, quanto mais nos próximos 10 anos. E aqui pergunto, vai-se aguentar a dupla BD/VdG, cuja capacidade de combate real é muito reduzida, até 2030/35 e seguir o sonho das EPC/FSC? Arriscando no fim não se ter nada (habitual falta de vontade) e ficarmos dependentes de fragatas com mais de 40 anos e sem upgrades dignos?

A mim parece-me muita fruta, e espero estar enganado, mas temo que tenha o mesmo desfecho do LPD e do AOR, foram-se recusando opções em segunda-mão com benefícios imediatos,para sonhar alto com navios novos, e no fim nem uma coisa nem outra...

[JohnM]

No entanto mantém-se o "elephant in the room", que são as datas, o upgrade de treta das VdG e a capacidade de combate praticamente nula das nossas Meko (com ou sem o dito MLU) no presente, quanto mais nos próximos 10 anos. E aqui pergunto, vai-se aguentar a dupla BD/VdG, cuja capacidade de combate real é muito reduzida, até 2030/35 e seguir o sonho das EPC/FSC? Arriscando no fim não se ter nada (habitual falta de vontade) e ficarmos dependentes de fragatas com mais de 40 anos e sem upgrades dignos?

A mim parece-me muita fruta, e espero estar enganado, mas temo que tenha o mesmo desfecho do LPD e do AOR, foram-se recusando opções em segunda-mão com benefícios imediatos,para sonhar alto com navios novos, e no fim nem uma coisa nem outra...

Infelizmente, se não há dinheiro para Marlins ou o Wave, duvido que haja para  comprar fragatas usadas... além de que não há praticamente nada no mercado, a não ser eventualmente a T23 GP Inglesas, que tb estão a cair de podre... E claro que há o risco de se chegar a 2030-35 e tb não haver dinheiro para novas, mas isso são outros 500...

[Pescador]

 According to the presentation, the EPC is expected to be developed in at least three main versions, including a patrol version aimed to meet Italian and Spanish requirements, a long range version for France and a combat version for Greece.


A versão para Portugal será "complexa" daí estar em observação por entidades supra das teorias da complexidade.
Deve vir capaz de executar tarefas, como passeio aos Palop e, combate a pirataria à distancia de tiro de espingarda. 

[JohnM]

Eu arriscaria que a versão portuguesa, a materializar-se, não será a versão de patrulha de longo alcance, porque não precisamos, e não será a versão topo de gama, porque não há pilim... eu arriscaria dizer que seria algo com um radar AESA relativamente básico (NS100?), um sonar ativo de casco, alguma capacidade de auto-defesa (8-16 ESSM 2) e AShM (4 ASM?)... se for assim, já não é mau... afinal já seria uma complexidade de cruzador...

Ab