Protestos na Ucrânia e a possibilidade de guerra civil

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they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.

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The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.

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Asked about evidence, one of the senior U.S. intelligence officials said it was conceivable that Russian paramilitary troops are operating in eastern Ukraine, but that there was no direct link from them to the missile launch.

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/wh ... n-ukraine/

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What I’ve been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.

The source said CIA analysts were still not ruling out the possibility that the troops were actually eastern Ukrainian rebels in similar uniforms but the initial assessment was that the troops were Ukrainian soldiers. There also was the suggestion that the soldiers involved were undisciplined and possibly drunk, since the imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site, the source said.

Up to 15,000 Russian soldiers have been sent to Ukraine over the past two months, and at least 200 may have died in combat there, according to rights groups.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/01/russian-soldiers-ukraine-rights-groups

Ten Russian soldiers captured in eastern Ukraine crossed the border "by accident", Russian military sources are quoted as saying.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28934213

Ukraine rebel leader confirms for the first time that Russian separatists DID have BUK anti-aircraft missiles after U.S. intelligence chiefs said Putin ‘bears responsibility’ for MH17
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2702002/US-Russia-created-conditions-shoot-down.html

the truck-owner Vasily who said that the Terrorussians stole the truck earlier that month to transport the BUK.

 The photo had been made by a Paris Match journalist while in Snizhne, although it is strange that they publish this one week after the incident. But maybe they wanted to trace the owner down first.

 Geolocating the photo is a bit tricky, because there are little clues. The article says the journalist took the photo in Snizhne in the morning, but it is more likely to be in Donetsk, because there are trolley bus lines ahead the road and these are only to be found in Donetsk and Lugansk.

Putin Given Country Estates in Crimea. Crimea’s council of ministers has handed over several state-owned dachas, or country estates, as well as a nature reserve, health spas, children’s camps and a venerable winery to the Kremlin's property management department, Russian newspaper Kommersant reported Wednesday.

Before the annexation in March, all of these properties belonged either to a similar institution under the Ukrainian president or were controlled by Ukrainian ministries, the report said.

“The state dachas will be used for their intended purpose. Top [government] dignitaries will visit them,” Kommersant quoted Crimean leader Sergei Aksyonov as saying. Moscow will also be responsible for their upkeep, he said.
 
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509873.html

http://warisacrime.org/content/memorandum-angela-merkel-chancellor-germany

You need to know, for example, that accusations of a major Russian "invasion" of Ukraine appear not to be supported by reliable intelligence. Rather, the "intelligence" seems to be of the same dubious, politically "fixed" kind used 12 years ago to "justify" the U.S.-led attack on Iraq. We saw no credible evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq then; we see no credible evidence of a Russian invasion now. Twelve years ago, former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, mindful of the flimsiness of the evidence on Iraqi WMD, refused to join in the attack on Iraq. In our view, you should be appropriately suspicious of charges made by the U.S. State Department and NATO officials alleging a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Photos can be worth a thousand words; they can also deceive. We have considerable experience collecting, analyzing, and reporting on all kinds of satellite and other imagery, as well as other kinds of intelligence. Suffice it to say that the images released by NATO on August 28 provide a very flimsy basis on which to charge Russia with invading Ukraine. Sadly, they bear a strong resemblance to the images shown by Colin Powell at the UN on February 5, 2003 that, likewise, proved nothing.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/no-ins ... 959f92c23b

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29002147.

Ten Russian paratroopers captured inside Ukraine a week ago have returned home following a troop exchange, Russian media report.

Russia's military said it had released 63 captured Ukrainian soldiers in exchange for the paratroopers.

Ukraine released video interviews with the captured Russian soldiers last week.

It says the soldiers were captured 20km from the border with Russia.

Russia claimed that the soldiers had crossed in Ukraine "by accident" after inadvertently crossing an unmarked section of the border.

The 63 Ukrainian soldiers released were said to have entered Russia to escape the upsurge in fighting last week.

24, 2014: Pro-Russian rebels escorting captured Ukrainian army prisoners on central square in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/german-intelligence-blames-pro-russian-separatists-for-mh17-downing-a-997972.html

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The BND has intelligence indicating that pro-Russian separatists captured a BUK air defense missile system at a Ukrainian military base and fired a missile on July 17 that exploded in direct proximity to the Malaysian aircraft, which had been carrying 298 people.

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/214197.html

"The military told the president after the passenger plane had been shot down [in the Donetsk region] that the terrorists did not possess our Buk and S-300 missile systems. Such had not been seized," the prosecutor general told the Ukrainska Pravda online edition after the Thursday meeting of the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-prese ... ne-crash-0

they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.

Intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.

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Asked about evidence, one of the senior U.S. intelligence officials said it was conceivable that Russian paramilitary troops are operating in eastern Ukraine, but that there was no direct link from them to the missile launch.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 97972.html

The Buk launcher can be identified because of a number of features, including white markings on the left side side of its chassis, and what looks like the traces of a number that has been painted over. Here is a comparison of the Buk seen in previously unpublicised video taken in Russia on the 23rd of June with a well known image from Paris Match, which shows a Buk in Donetsk at 9am on July the 17th.


On the left: the Buk in a column of Russian military vehicles seen on the evening on the 23rd of June on the motorway from Staryy Oskol to the OEMK steel works in the Belgorod area

Source - http://instagram.com/p/pmHfidCSJU/?modal=true

On the Right: Image from Paris Match.

Source: https://bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-euro ... e-odyssey/

Numerous earlier studies of vehicles inside Ukraine has shown it has been standard practice for Russian forces to paint over the numbers on their vehicles before sending them into the Ukraine. In the Paris Match image, much of the remaining number has now been painted over. However, it is still possible to see the top curve of what was a “2” and the other two white marks. It’s important to note that these markings are in exactly the same positions on the Buk in both images.

Russian military vehicles loaded with shipping containers for missiles of BUK-M1 air defense missile system drive along the road outside Kamensk-Shakhtinsky, Rostov Region, August 16, 2014.

Russia carries out new military exercises close to Ukraine border

Notar os comentários, aos quais se acrescenta: "Mas não te preocupes pá, não és o único burro a não perceber o básico"  :twisted:

Donbass defenders
refrain lirics:
Russia dances Europe cries
And Ukraine gets kicked аss.

Mafets acho que não são necessárias tantas imagens para expores o teu ponto de vista... E a minha net acusa logo a pressão...    :oops:    

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Mensagens eliminadas por falta de qualidade.
Tópico para discutir a situação actual na Ucrânia.
Para focar novamente a discussão na invasão da Crimeia ou no abate do MH-17 criem tópicos dedicados.
Se a intenção for apenas enviar mensagens entre foristas que seja por MP.


A Moderação.

The 'aggrieved housewife', the 'soldier's mother' and the 'Kiev resident': Did Russian television 'use actress to portray FIVE different women' as it reported normal Ukrainians backed Kremlin
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2574131/How-Russian-television-used-actress-pretend-five-different-people-opposed-revolution-reported-normal-Ukrainians-backed-Kremlin.html

P.S. Alguém com ligações a leste, sabe o que foi feito daquele rapaz simpático que se entreteu a mandar "selfies" do interior de diversos veículos militares (um dos quais um Buk) em "exercícios" na Ucrânia, para os amigos na Rússia?

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1-   Se chama dignidade e respeito a isto. Aliás, é o contrário pois exemplos de indignidade de praticamente todos os intervenientes, desde separatistas (não basta fornecer as caixas negras e escolta armada  ), repórteres (vários a mexerem nos pertences das vitimais ) à população em geral (desde passeios ao local a vacas a pastar), é o que não faltam

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10877&start=960

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10877&start=1230

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10877&start=885

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The 'aggrieved housewife', the 'soldier's mother' and the 'Kiev resident': Did Russian television 'use actress to portray FIVE different women' as it reported normal Ukrainians backed Kremlin
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2574131/How-Russian-television-used-actress-pretend-five-different-people-opposed-revolution-reported-normal-Ukrainians-backed-Kremlin.html

 :twisted:    :twisted:  

=== Nota da moderação ===

Já explicámos anteriormente que não vamos tolerar ataques ad hominem!!!

Non mea culpa hoc nomen elegit Gobbo sensum.  :twisted:  :twisted:

 salutem dicens et pacem  

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The 'aggrieved housewife', the 'soldier's mother' and the 'Kiev resident': Did Russian television 'use actress to portray FIVE different women' as it reported normal Ukrainians backed Kremlin
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2574131/How-Russian-television-used-actress-pretend-five-different-people-opposed-revolution-reported-normal-Ukrainians-backed-Kremlin.html

 :twisted:    :twisted:  

Annie, Dundee, United Kingdom, 8 months ago

It's obvious to anyone who isn't desperate for sensationalist material that these are different women.

James, London, 8 months ago

For G*d sake. They are not the same woman. Similar looking but not the same. The people in that area are of the same ethnic mix ie Scandinavian and Mongol. This article is daft. It would be more helpful to be writing about something more constructive than looking for something that isn't there.

Inge, London, 8 months ago

That is three different woman!

aberrant_apostrophe, Reading, United Kingdom, 8 months ago

If it's the same woman she must have interchangeable eyebrows. I'm quite sure if you trawled through a few hundred photos of people you could come up with five that looked similar.

SHOUTYLADY, o.., United Kingdom, 8 months ago

What a joke. They're not the same person. Maybe 1 and 5 but not the others.

Stark, London, United Kingdom, 8 months ago

Not being funny but there are at least 3 different women there. Also with thousands of pro-russian protesters out on the streets wouldn't it be easier just to use them rather than fly one "actress" across a huge country from one city to another? That said media propaganda is obviously used by all sides, you are not revealing some earth shattering news here. This article for example is media propaganda.

dndbuk, Borth, United Kingdom, 8 months ago

The dark haired woman is not the same woman as above. Also, the one which says she is a mother of a soldier looks older to be the same one. I lived in eastern Europe for a couple of years and Slavic women do share physical similarities, it might be only that.

John, Stirling, 8 months ago

There is no way on giddy earth that the woman in the first 2 photos is the same woman in the third...You are the Propoganda machine Daily

SHOUTYLADY, o.., United Kingdom, 8 months ago

I agree, that's a different person, Do they think we are blind.

bewildered, lost in time, United Kingdom, 8 months ago

It's at least three different women - one is much younger with a different shaped mouth and face

Marcus, Northamptonshire, 8 months ago

You know whats worse than foreign propoganda? Homegrown propoganda pretending its news.

Gareth, Soham, 8 months ago

No if you look at the facial features nose etc they differ.

JOANNE, LEICESTER, United Kingdom, 8 months ago

not the same woman clearly differing age ranges


WarpCore Breach, London, United Kingdom, 8 months ago

Are you kidding DM? They are clearly different women.


Charlotte, Kent, 8 months ago

wow, all women have noses, eyes and lips! apparently different women of different age here.

Puella, Here There, United Kingdom, 8 months ago

I actually think those are three women, not one nor five. The women with the fur hat is the same person, and it may also be the woman with the t-shirt, but not entirely sure. The two other women, who I think are younger, are not the same as the woman in a fur hat, nor are they the same woman as the one in the t-shirt; they seem to be two different people. Thus, three women; maybe four, but not one. If the woman who's crying is an actor, then she is a very good actor. Her expression of pain and sadness seems very real.

AIP, IRL, Ireland, 8 months ago

Nevermind the hair being darker, she managed to look quite different ages with different face shapes in sine. However, I do agree that the photos of where she is wearing a fur hat (Kyiv resident and anti-Maidan protester) are of the same woman.

acynic, Lancs, 8 months ago

so its an houswife from kiev who has a son in the army, i am sure there must be thousands of them

Garry Kasparov on Russia's Propaganda War ;Thousands gather for anti-war rally in Moscow: Russians protest Kremlin anti-Ukrainian propaganda; NYT Caught Creating Fake War Propaganda in Ukraine Just Like Iraq
http://article.wn.com/view/2014/05/22/White_House_accuses_Russia_of_antiUS_propaganda_war_in_Ukrai/

Ukraine crisis: BBC finds Russian aid trucks 'almost empty'

Russia’s decision to send the convoy across the border without an escort by the International Committee of the Red Cross or final clearance from the Ukrainian government in Kiev had drawn harsh criticism. President Petro O. Poroshenko of Ukraine called the move a “flagrant violation of international law.” Another senior Ukrainian official denounced it as a “direct invasion.” And Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen of NATO, in a statement condemning the convoy’s entry, said it coincided with a “major escalation in Russian military involvement in eastern Ukraine.” During his meeting in Kiev with Ms. Merkel, Mr. Poroshenko said that 185 trucks had returned to Russia. It was unclear where the rest of a fleet of more than 200 vehicles that crossed into Ukraine on Friday had gone. Russian news media reported that some of the trucks might move from Luhansk to Donetsk.http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/world/europe/russian-convoy-ukraine.html?_r=0