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olisipo

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Re: CIA
« Responder #30 em: Junho 13, 2016, 09:09:42 pm »


The CIA Officer Left Behind by Hillary Clinton
 

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Pedro E.

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Re: CIA
« Responder #31 em: Agosto 03, 2016, 01:46:33 pm »
 que toscos que eles sao, fazem lembrar os james bonds lusos que aprendem com eles (os toscos). imperdivel placavel do policia russoa ao tosco do espiao da cia  2m15s.  TOUCHDOWN  8) :P :police: :no: yu23x1 yu23x1

 

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Viajante

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Re: CIA
« Responder #32 em: Agosto 03, 2016, 03:40:41 pm »
que toscos que eles sao, fazem lembrar os james bonds lusos que aprendem com eles (os toscos). imperdivel placavel do policia russoa ao tosco do espiao da cia  2m15s.  TOUCHDOWN  8) :P :police: :no: yu23x1 yu23x1


E como é que tu sabes que este vídeo tem alguma credibilidade? Ou se é verdadeiro? Como aconteceu com a desinformação russa sobre uma alegada cidadã Alemã violada por muçulmanos!?

Foram os teus camaradas que te traduziram o vídeo? :)  Não sei se quem aparece nas imagens é americano, russo ou tchetcheno!!!!

Os Russos gostam de fazer fitas e manobras de diversão..... mas eu prefiro a verdadeira ficção de Hollywood :)
« Última modificação: Agosto 03, 2016, 03:43:00 pm por Viajante »
 

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Pedro E.

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Re: CIA
« Responder #33 em: Agosto 03, 2016, 06:33:02 pm »

Nao sei de que desinformacao russa estas-te a referir  quando falas da cidada alema violada por muculmanos. Se fores mais especifico talvez te possa dar a minha opiniao sobre o assunto.

Quanto ao video dos toscos dos espioes americanos na russia eu sei que e verdade e e dificil explicar a quem demonstra tamanha incredibilidade. De qualquer das formas tens aqui dum jornal insuspeito para a ocasiao um relatos dos eventos

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/congress-investigating-attack-on-us-diplomat-in-moscow/2016/07/07/21380286-4456-11e6-8856-f26de2537a9d_story.html

O tosco que foi ao chao e um agente da cia com cobertura da embaixada americana em moscovo.  Da pelo nome de Daniel van Dyke
 

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Viajante

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Re: CIA
« Responder #34 em: Agosto 03, 2016, 09:03:48 pm »
The "Lisa case": Germany as a target of Russian disinformation

The media storm surrounding a fake story about a Russian-German girl, who had reportedly been raped by Arab migrants, was a wake up call for German political elites earlier this year. For the first time, they clearly saw the links between Russian domestic and foreign media campaigns against Germany and Russian politics at the highest level. The German government promptly advised the Federal Intelligence Service (BND) in coordination with the Foreign Office to check Russian sources of manipulation of German public opinion.

Germany‘s leading role in the Ukraine crisis, Angela Merkel's consequent position on sanctions against Russia and her leadership in Europe make the German government a core target of Russian disinformation.

The “Lisa case“ also shows not only the failure of Germany's partnership for modernisation with Russia but also the dysfunctionality of Russia's attempts to use personal ties and informal networks to influence German decision-making and policy when it comes to the current crisis and, in particular, the person of Chancellor Merkel. While the German government remains strongly committed to keeping channels for dialogue open, we see a complete loss of trust in relations which will be very hard to rebuild in the forseeable future.

Areas of Russian influence
Because of its close social, political and economic interweavement with Russia, Germany is a special case in relations with Moscow. Over the past 25 years, the goal of German elites was always to build up trust via networks and to support "change through interweavement with Russia" at all levels.


Chancellor Angela Merkel’s leadership role in Europe, in particular with regard to the Ukraine crisis and sanctions against Russia, makes the German government a target of Russian disinformation. © EC Europa

Under Putin's leadership these ties have increasingly been used in the opposite direction, aimed at influencing both bilateral relations and Germany's Russia policy in Europe. As a result we observe many non-transparent networks of relations which are partly linked to economic interests. This became visible in energy projects like Nord Stream, where former Chancellor Gerhard Schröder is chairman of its supervisory board, as well as in former Stasi networks at Gazprom Germania.
The Russian leadership has actively promoted informal and non-transparent networks, exchanges and selection of participants in institutions and circles initated by Germany, such as the German-Russian Forum. As a result, the cooperative approach of the German side, opened channels for the Russian leadership to influence German politics and public. Until the Ukraine crisis, there was a lack of understanding among German decision-makers about the nature and goals of Putin‘s system of power, including the basics for a counter strategy. Despite all the offers of dialogue with Russia, this is now changing.
The role of the German government in the Ukraine crisis has led to an increase in Russian activities in the country and the activation of existing networks. Russian media and politics use and promote anti-EU, anti-US and anti-establishment groups to influence the mood of German society.
We observe three areas of Russian influence: first, Russian foreign media like RT and Sputnik; second, growing links with German populist parties on the right and left margins of the political spectrum; third, the use of its network of former politicians and institutions for dialogue to try to shape German decision-making on Russia in the current discussion on sanctions.
Russian foreign media
Russian media operating in Germany are the media platform Sputnik including the newsagency RIA Novosti, the German speaking radio programme "Voice of Russia", the TV Channel RT via Ruptly TV and the German speaking branch RT Deutsch.


“Just what we needed
The state-owned Russian propaganda channel RT has recently come to the market with a German offering.
It is frightening how they lie and twist stories.“
- a screen grab from RT shows headline from Zeit Online

RT Deutsch produces the TV show "the missing part" which aims to show a different picture of events to that in German mainstream media. According to their website, the main goal is to "build up a counter-public as well as show media manipulation" in the German public discourse. RT Deutsch, for instance, broadcasts live coverage of the demonstrations of the anti-Islam movement PEGIDA. Russian foreign media cooperate with system-critical journalists, pseudo experts and conspiracy media like Compact. They give a platform to rightwing populist party representatives of Alternative for Germany (AfD) or representatives of the leftwing parliamentarian party "Die Linke" who promote the lifting of sanctions or arguments about Ukraine known from Russian disinformation campaigns.
These Russian media are not successful in reaching the broader German public, they are rather a niche product for special social groups. Nevertheless, it is important to note that they are increasingly linked with websites of right and leftwing networks, that they give platforms to representatives from populist parties and that they use social media and these connections to bring their content into the public sphere and the mainstream media. Of course, all these Russian foreign channels widely reported on the “Lisa case“.
Party landscape
Over decades, the Social Democratic partie (SPD) played a central role in the conceptualisation of Germany's Russia and Eastern Europe policy. The partnership for modernisation is based on the traditional social democratic concept of "change through interweavement" first with the Soviet Union and, after 1991, with the Russian Federation. The annexation of Crimea, the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and the war in eastern Ukraine have become a reality check for Germany's Russia policy.
Despite their limited popularity in his own party, SPD Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier has supported the sanctions against Russia. In the past, it tended to be the older generation of the SPD (like the former Chancellors Gerhard Schröder or the recently deceased Helmut Schmidt) who advocated for understanding with Russia. However, in the current public discussion, it was SPD Vice-Chancellor and Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel who argued several times for a gradual abolition of sanctions and publicly supported the extension of the Nord Stream pipeline during meeting with Putin in Moscow in October 2015.

Members of both the biggest opposition party in the Bundestag "Die Linke" and the rightwing populist party AfD have developed links with Russian state institutions. The deputy parliamentary party leader of "Die Linke", Wolfgang Gehrke, traveled together with a party collegue to the separatist region of Donetsk to supply "relief aid" and meet the leaders of the so called "People‘s Republic".
The deputy party speaker of AfD, Alexander Gauland, visited the Russian embassy in November 2014 and supported a regular exchange with the Russian side. The head of AfD‘s youth organization, Markus Frohnmaier, is reported to have participated in a congress of pan-Slavic groups in Belgrade in 2014 and to have had meetings with Robert Schlegel – formerly a leading member of the pro-Putin Youth organisation "Nashi" and now responsible for party contacts abroad for the leading pro-Kremlin party United Russia.
Russian networks
The past 15 years have seen the development of a network of "Russia friendly" experts, journalists and politicians who have been active during the Ukraine crisis. The German-Russian Forum has become a key institution of these networks. It also organises the Petersburg Dialog – a civil society platform founded by former Chancellor Gerhard Schröder and President Putin in 2001.
Both institutions are actually directed more towards business interests and elite dialogue, than exchanges among civil society. Former SPD Chairman and Minister-President of Brandenburg Mathias Platzeck has become the Chairman of the German-Russian Forum. He publically espouses Russian positions on the Ukraine crisis, for instance, demanding that the Russian annexation of Crimea be legalised retrospectively as being “acceptable“ for both sides.

Beside the right and leftwing populist networks, several former politicians, economists and journalists spread Russian disinformation arguments in mainstream media. They take part in talk shows in national public TV and give interviews in the main newspapers and have much more effect on opinion-making than Russian foreign media – but they use arguments known from Russian media.
What is new with the Lisa case?
The case of Lisa dominated the headlines and impacted on German public discussion for two weeks in January 2016. The 13 year old Russian-German girl had gone missing for 30 hours and was reported by First Russian TV to have been raped by migrants. The story turned out to be fake (the German police were able to establish that she had been with a friend that night) but was intensively reported in Russian domestic and foreign media, and ended in diplomatic tensions between Germany and Russia.
In the “Lisa case“ we see evidence, for the first time, of several of the different Russian elements of influence that are described in this article working in a coordinated way:
-   A journalist from the First Russian TV channel picked up the case of the Russian-German girl and brought it to the main news in Russia;
-   Russian foreign media like RT, Sputnik and RT Deutsch reported on the case;
-   Social media as well as rightwing groups distributed the information on the internet;
-   Demonstrations were organised via Facebook involving representatives of the German-Russian minority (Deutschlandrussen) as well as neo-Nazi groups;
-   Russian foreign media in Germany reported from these demonstrations, which brought it to the German mainstream media;
-   Finally, at the top political level, Russian Foreign Minister Sergej Lavrov made two public statements about his concerns about the inability of the German police and legal system to take such cases seriously because of political correctness.
As a result of the “Lisa case“ and the different Russian activities in the context of the Ukraine conflict, we are seeing a shift in Germany from the dominance of the economy over politics to a dominance of politics over the economy. Russia has become a security risk, the relations are increasingly politicised and securitised.
As media reports after a leak, the new German White Book for security has identified Russia as one out of the country’s main challenges. According to its authors, the Russian leadership is not only questioning the post-Cold War security order in Europe but is also using "hybrid instruments for a targeted blurring of bounderies between war and peace" and "digital communication to influence public opinion" in Germany.

http://www.nato.int/docu/review/2016/Also-in-2016/lisa-case-germany-target-russian-disinformation/EN/index.htm?utm_campaign=160801%2Bnr%2Blisa%2Bcase&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=smc

No fundo este artigo coloca em causa todas as tuas fontes que referes sempre neste Fórum (apesar de não estar admirado pelas fontes duvidosas) e coloca a nu a contra-informação da Rússia na Alemanha, tentando virar a população contra o governo. São manobras despresíveis, praticadas pela Rússia e em resposta à intervenção da Alemanha na Ucrânia (só por beliscar os interesses russos na Ucrânia, repito, passou-se na Ucrânia e não na Rússia o golpe militar).
« Última modificação: Agosto 03, 2016, 09:10:23 pm por Viajante »
 

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Pedro E.

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Re: CIA
« Responder #35 em: Agosto 03, 2016, 11:24:04 pm »

Fizeste-me perder 5 minutos a ler este texto

Como e que tu queres provar que ha desinformacao russa no caso Lisa se nem sequer tens um link dos media russos a reportar sobre o caso?

Tu es daqueles que acredita muito no diz que disse. Pensas que se a Nato diz que a russia faz desinformacao na alemanha e porque e verdade. Nem te das ao trabalho de verificar em diversas fontes como tratado o caso Lisa. O minimo que tens que fazer e sacares um link da RT e da Sputnik para depois se puder comparar com outros fontes.

Sinceramente gostava imenso de ler o exemplo dessa cobertura terrivel e mentirosa que a RT e a Sputnik fizeram do caso , mas se nem tu que es o principal defensor da tese da desinformacao russa consegues mostar um simples link desses meios de comunicacao que serviriam como prova da  tua teoria entao e porque ha qualquer coisa que nao esta bem

Sera que e assim tao dificl? Se eu disser que o teu vizinho roubou-te o carro  tu acreditas em mim ou vais ver a garagem se o carro esta la?

Va la Viajante, toca la de mostrar aqui ao pessoal como e que a RT e a Sputnik fizeram a cobertura da estoria. Depois conversamos.
 

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Viajante

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Re: CIA
« Responder #36 em: Agosto 04, 2016, 03:17:44 pm »
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/31/teenage-girl-made-up-migrant-claim-that-caused-uproar-in-germany
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-german-girl-admits-making-up-claim-she-was-raped-by-refugees-in-berlin-a6845256.html
http://gatesofvienna.net/2016/01/russian-reactions-to-the-rape-by-migrants-of-13-year-old-russian-german-girl/
(Vídeo com o Lavrov)
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/01/lavrov-steinmeier-speak-about-13-year.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/01/europe/germany-teen-migrant-rape-false/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_case_of_Lisa_F.

Chegam-te estas fontes? Até coloquei o vídeo do Ministro Lavrov a falar do tema, não sei o que diz, mas pelo título em Inglês.....
Tens aí a CNN, a The Guardian, Independent, até a Wikipedia fala da manobra Russa para virar a população alemã contra o seu governo.

A verdade é que a Rússia é o que sempre foi, uma nação especialista em virar países contra outros até ao requinte de virar as populações dos países contra os seus governos! Está aí, podes ler os artigos todos, ou não são sites suficientemente sérios para ti?

"After the Russian media extensively covered the story and reported that the girl had been mistreated and held as a "sex slave", many Russian Germans reacted with anger; beginning on 18 January there were demonstrations in several parts of Germany, amongst others in front of the Bundeskanzleramt in Berlin on 23 January."
« Última modificação: Agosto 04, 2016, 03:37:50 pm por Viajante »
 

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Pedro E.

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Re: CIA
« Responder #37 em: Agosto 04, 2016, 04:25:26 pm »

Vou ler esses artigos e responderei quando tiver tempo (possivelmente mais a noite)

Mas voltaste a falhar. Fizeste uma acusacao de que a Russia faz desinformacao na Alemanha. Essa desinformacao e feita atraves dos media russos ( RT, Sputnik entre outros). Onde e que estao entao os exemplos nesses media russos das reportagens manipuladoras?

O que mais uma vez me mostras e o que os outros dizem que os russos fazem ( guardian, cnn, independent, nato etc)

Onde e que esta o exemplo bruto ? Para analisar a tua acusacao preciso de links das reportagens russas que sejam exemplo dessa campanha de desinformacao, nao do que e que os media ocidentais dizem sobre as ditas reportagens.
Nao quero copias de copias, nao quero boatos, nao quero informacao contaminada.

Ver se com alegorias entendes  ???
Se eu disser que ganhei a lotaria nao significa que ganhei a lotaria, se os meus amigos disserem que eu ganhei tambem nao significa nada, mesmo que nos jornais digam que eu ganhei a lotaria so sera verdade se eu tiver a chave comigo e a mostrar.
 

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Pedro E.

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Re: CIA
« Responder #38 em: Agosto 05, 2016, 12:12:43 am »

estive a consultar medias alemaes para me inteirar da historia. o verdadeiro nome de lisa e Elisabeth Fisenko



a tua acusacao de desinformaco russa nao faz sentido por uma simples razao. a menina quando reapareceu a versao dela perante os pais e policia foi de que tinha sido raptda e violada por um grupo de homens. Os media russos nao inventaram esta estoria

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/streit-mit-russland-angeblich-vergewaltigtes-maedchen-war-bei-einem-bekannten-14041034.html
Citar
Die 13-Jährige aus Marzahn-Hellersdorf war am Morgen des 11. Januar für 30 Stunden verschwunden und hatte danach ihrer Familie von einer Entführung und Vergewaltigung durch eine Gruppe südländisch aussehender Männer erzählt.

 Diz a rapariga que foi sequestrada por tres homens que aparentam ser do sul da europa, sem falar bem alemao e que a levaram para um apartamento onde foi agredida e violada

http://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Fall-Lisa-Das-sind-die-Fakten-article16865016.html
Citar
Am 11. Januar verschwand das Mädchen in Berlin auf dem Weg zur Schule, die Eltern melden sie bei der Polizei als vermisst. Am folgenden Tag ist Lisa wieder da. Sie berichtet, sie sei von drei Unbekannten verschleppt worden. Es habe sich um "Südländer" gehandelt, die nicht richtig Deutsch sprachen. In einer Wohnung hätten sie sie immer wieder geschlagen und vergewaltigt.

A policia alema fez a sua investigacao incluindo pericias medicas e concluiu que nao ouve agressao sexual

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article151146071/Polizei-dementiert-Vergewaltigung-durch-Auslaender.html
Citar
Außerdem appellierte die Polizei am Montag an die Internetnutzer, sensibel mit dem Thema umzugehen. "Fakt ist – nach den Ermittlungen unseres LKA gab es weder eine Entführung noch eine Vergewaltigung", erklärte die Polizei in einer Mitteilung.

Segundo a versao oficial a rapariga fugiu por ter problemas na escola e passou esse tempo que esteve dada como desaparecida  na casa de um conhecido ( um rapaz de 19 anos)que foi apenas constituido como testemunha do caso. nao ha suspeitas de que houve contacto sexual entre eles.

http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article151646440/13-Jaehrige-versteckte-sich-wegen-Schulproblemen.html
Citar
Das Mädchen, das mit der erfundenen Geschichte über ihr Verschwinden für Aufruhr sorgte, verbrachte die fragliche Nacht des 11. Januar bei einem Bekannten, wie ein Staatsanwaltschaftssprecher am Freitag der Deutschen Presse-Agentur sagte.

Offenbar traute sie sich wegen Problemen in der Schule nicht nach Hause zu ihren Eltern. "Sie wollte weg und hat bei ihm Unterschlupf gesucht."

Bei dem 19 Jahre alten Bekannten des Mädchens wurden Sachen von ihr gefunden. Der Mann habe auch zugegeben, dass sie in der Nacht vom 11. auf den 12. Januar bei ihm war, sagte der Sprecher.

Es gebe aber keine Hinweise auf eine Sexualstraftat oder einen sexuellen Kontakt des Mannes zu dem Mädchen. Gegen den Mann werde daher auch nicht ermittelt, er sei nur ein Zeuge. Das Mädchen selber sage weiterhin kaum etwas Verwertbares zu dem Fall.

A versao russa, apontada pelo ministro dos negocios estrangeiros e de que houve um encobrimento da historia e ha indicios nesse sentido. 2 homens foram investigados por abuso sexual da menina antes do desaparecimento. a suspeita e de que o contacto sexual foi consentido, mas a idade legal na alemanha e aos 14 anos.

http://www.bild.de/regional/berlin/sexueller-missbrauch/staatsanwaltschaft-ermittelt-gegen-zwei-maenner-44307232.bild.html

Citar
Wie am Dienstag bekannt wurde, wird nun mittlerweile gegen zwei Männer ermittelt. Es gehe um den Verdacht, dass es vor dem Verschwinden des Mädchens einvernehmliche Sexualkontakte zu den Männern gab, sagte Steltner.

numa entrevista que a mae deu aos media alemaes ela apoia a versao inicial da filha, os homens obrigaram ela a despir-se e abusaram dela. ela chegou a casa com os labios secos, hematomas debaixo dos olhos e sangue na boca

http://www.rp-online.de/panorama/deutschland/fall-lisa-mutter-svetlana-f-bleibt-bei-der-version-ihrer-tochter-aid-1.5733930

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Danach haben sie ihr befohlen sich auszuziehen. Lisa zog sich aus - und dann hat es jeder der Männer der Reihe nach mit ihr getan."

Svetlana F. hält also weiterhin an der Version ihrer Tochter fest. Diese sei mit trockenen Lippen, Hämatomen unter den Augen und Blut im Mund nach Hause gekommen, berichtet die Mutter. Dann habe Lisa ihr geschildert, wie sie von drei Männern entführt und vergewaltigt wurde


Nao vejo sinais de desinformacao russa, antes pelo contrario. Os contornos deste caso sao pouco claros e a policia andou aos ziguezaguesA Russia seguiu a primeira linha das noticias- historia de rapto e violacao como a rapariga primeiramente disse. As autoridades alemaes no fim, vem dizer que nao se passou nada - problemas na escola, fugiu de casa, foi ter com um amigo.
 

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Pedro E.

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Re: CIA
« Responder #39 em: Agosto 31, 2016, 08:45:00 pm »

NED, the Legal Window of the CIA
http://www.voltairenet.org/article192992.html
 

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Pedro E.

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Re: CIA
« Responder #40 em: Janeiro 18, 2017, 02:04:03 pm »
 

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Pedro E.

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Re: CIA
« Responder #41 em: Janeiro 20, 2017, 01:26:20 pm »
 

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Pedro E.

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Re: CIA
« Responder #42 em: Fevereiro 12, 2017, 10:43:25 am »
 

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Camuflage

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Re: CIA
« Responder #43 em: Fevereiro 12, 2017, 02:03:52 pm »
Isso já foi desmentido, ele tem visto até 2020 para ficar na Rússia e depois disso pode apelar à nacionalidade russa.
 

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Pedro E.

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Re: CIA
« Responder #44 em: Fevereiro 13, 2017, 12:54:57 am »

sim

e lendo a noticia sao varias as opinioes contrarias ao cenario da extraditacao.

eu tambem nao acredito que o snowden volte para a america tao cedo (fazer o que?) mas os media americanos volta e meia gostam de falar do seu regresso ou de um qualquer acordo  entre americanos e russos