Israel vs Hezbollah no Libano

  • 674 Respostas
  • 102790 Visualizações
*

Marauder

  • Investigador
  • *****
  • 2102
  • +0/-0
(sem assunto)
« Responder #15 em: Julho 14, 2006, 05:21:19 pm »
Citação de: "Yosy"
Citação de: "Hélder"
Acho que é mais assim...

Libaneses »»»:Esmagar:««« Merkavas Israelitas

 :wink:

http://diariodigital.sapo.pt/news.asp?s ... ews=236250

Hamas recuperar o controlo? um pouco subjectivo...what do you mean?
 

*

14_NS_88

  • 8
  • +0/-0
(sem assunto)
« Responder #16 em: Julho 14, 2006, 06:11:38 pm »
Citação de: "papatango"
É o principal problema! Se os Israelitas encontrarem razões para atacar a Siria, então eles vão atacar a Siria e neste momento não estou a ver muita gente disponível para ajudar a Siria.


O presidente do Irão disse qualquer coisa sobre uma "grande ofensiva dos países muçulmanos contra Israel" (não foram estas as palavras exactas), caso Israel ataque a Siria (deu no telejornal ás 13.00).

Quanto a este conflito, era previsivel. Os judeus resolveram ocupar o territorio onde agora é Israel, sem terem direito a ele, é perfeitamente normal que os Palestinianos (os donos daquele territorio por direito) se revoltem e que o restante mundo arabe os apoie. E quando os soldados Israelitas resolvem matar palestinianos nos postos de controlo sem razão aparente, a revolta ainda cresce mais.
Sem querer ofender ninguém, cada vez mais dou razão ao presidente Iraniano: Israel tem de desapaecer do mapa.
 

*

Azraael

  • Perito
  • **
  • 413
  • +0/-0
    • http://www.bgoncalves.com
(sem assunto)
« Responder #17 em: Julho 14, 2006, 06:46:01 pm »
Citar
Sad, but necessary


I have no doubt that Israel was right to react to the kidnapping of two of its soldiers. For some time now, the Israelis have acted with great self-restraint in response to huge provocation from various groups allied to the Palestinian cause. In the end, something was bound to give, and the likes of Hezbollah knew that.

Israel has a new prime minister, a man with no military background. There are bound to be suspicions that this week's bombing of Lebanon was, at least in part, an attempt by Ehud Olmert to prove his hardline credentials to the Israeli military - and the wider population. He wouldn't be human if there were not an element of that in his mind, though it might well be buried deep in his subconscious.

But whatever the real reason, he was right to take action. Not least because, if he had not done so, it would have been interpreted by Israel's enemies as a sign of weakness and encouraged Hezbollah to take further hostages.

The key for the Israeli prime minister now is to determine what is a proportionate response and what is not.

Friends of mine, who know far more about Israel than I do, are convinced that the soldier kidnapped a few weeks ago is already dead. For all we know the same fate has befallen the latest two victims. If so, then the Middle East is about to enter a new phase of carnage and retribution at a time when the region already resembles a giant fusebox.

Memories of August 1914 keep coming to me. A world war started by a bizarre killing in Sarajevo. Could Hezbollah have started a massive new conflict by kidnapping two anonymous Israeli soldiers? It hardly bears thinking about.

I have no doubt that the White House will be urging the Israeli government to exercise restraint. Condi Rice will be telling them that they've made their point, and that further destruction and heavy military strikes would be counter-productive.

But her discussions with the Lebanese would be far more interesting. For the newly elected and very shaky Lebanese government is in a real quandary. It contains members of Hezbollah - one in its Cabinet - yet it does not control them. Indeed, you could argue that it is even less able to control Hezbollah than the Palestinian Authority is able to control the radicals and terrorists who operate within its jurisdiction. A further complication is that the Lebanese government is heavily influenced by the Syrians. And it is they who could prove key to this unfortunate situation. This is not a comforting thought for anyone.

My thoughts on this terrible situation are also influenced by a visit I made to Lebanon some 15 years ago, not long after the British hostages had been freed. Indeed, I was told during my visit to Beirut that I was the first Brit to have ventured there following John McCarthy's release, a bit of a coincidence as John McCarthy lived in the next village to me in Essex. Had I know this before my trip, I suspect I might well have chickened out of going.

The reason for my trip was equally bizarre. I was working as transport lobbyist at the time, specialising in various forms of transport privatisation. I got a call from the Foreign Office asking if I would be interested in speaking at a conference on the subject in the Middle East, as no one in the Department of Transport could go. Never having been to that part of the world before, I was naturally rather keen to go.

"Where is it being held?" I asked.

"Er, Beirut," came the response. I began to understand why Department of Transport diaries were strangely full. But my own curiosity and sense of adventure got the better of me and, a few weeks later, I was travelling to the Lebanese capital courtesy of a first-class ticket of Middle Eastern Airlines. "This is the life," I thought to myself.

I had been told by the Foreign Office that when I got off the plane I would be met by officials from the British Embassy, and that I wasn't to talk to or go off with anyone but them. When I started descending the rather rickety steps, all I could see were Lebanese army soldiers surrounding the plane toting AK47s. It was at that point I began to wonder if this had been such a good idea after all.

When I got to the bottom of the steps, a black Mercedes with darkened windows pulled up. A man wearing sunglasses got out, approached me and said: "Mr Dale? You come with me."

"No," I said. "I'm being collected by the British Embassy"
.
"Mr Dale, you come with me," he repeated in a manner that seemed rather determined. Being a complete coward, I got in the car and travelled a couple of hundred yards to a shed where he demanded my passport.

Eventually I gave up asking where the British embassy officials were and decided that doing what I was told was the best way forward. Once the passport formalities were completed, he told me he would take me to my hotel, which was about half an hour's drive away. I knew that the airport road was not exactly the safest part of Beirut, but I wasn't in much of a position to argue.

On the way to the hotel I had a running commentary of all the people who had been killed or kidnapped on this road. Just what I needed. The whole area seemed to resemble Dresden after a bombing raid. Rubble everywhere, people nowhere. As we approached Beirut itself, it was quite clear that this had once been a truly beautiful place.

The hotel was comfortable, if not luxurious. But, looking out of the reception window, it was impossible to ignore the armed guards who surrounded its perimeter.

At last I heard the sound of British voices. I turned round and saw four khaki-dressed soldiers approaching. They apologised for missing me at the airport and asked if I was ready.

"Ready for what?" I asked.

"You're guest of honour at a dinner at the British embassy in an hour," they informed me.

"Nice of someone to tell me," I thought.

I have to admit I am not the kind of person who is used to embassy dinners or cocktail parties. Indeed, I had never been to one before, and haven't been to another one since. But it's not the dinner that sticks in my mind from that memorable day. It is the 45-minute drive from the hotel to the embassy.

We were in a convoy of two armed Land Rovers, each with soldiers almost hanging out of the windows, carrying guns. We drove at breakneck speed through down Beirut, up into the hills.

I did wonder if it was such a good idea to have a Union Jack flying from the front of each Land Rover but didn't like to say anything.

We got to the embassy and negotiated the 200 yards long chicane of concrete blocks, which I think was supposed to protect the building from suicide bombers. I arrived to be greeted by the ambassador, and his wife, who had invited a selection of local businesspeople and journalists to meet me.

The next day I spoke at the Transport Privatisation conference, which was being shown live on TV throughout the Middle East and, therefore, informing every terrorist organisation in the region that a new Brit was in their midst. Thankfully I wasn't told that until I was about to leave. The speech went well and I then had the best part of a day to myself. I had been told I wasn't to set foot outside the hotel without ringing the embassy and getting their permission, and a guard.

They provided me with a driver for a visit I to the port area. I was shown round by the port manager, whose English was only slightly worse than my French. They were still trying to clear the harbour area of wreckage so the port could start to function again properly.

On the way back, I tried to ask my driver where I could buy some souvenirs. Feeling quite proud of making myself understood in French, I was horrified when I found him driving off the main road through some backstreets. He understood I needed to change some dollars but the first place we went t couldn't do it.

I then found myself walking down the main shopping street in Beirut behind this man, feeling rather conspicuous in my western suit. All eyes were on me; well at least I thought they were. I changed some money and bought a few vases, and then scarpered back to the hotel.

But the best part of the trip was yet to come. One of the organisers of the conference asked if I would like a tour of the countryside surrounding Beirut. I said I didn't think the embassy would allow me to, but I he managed to persuade me (the follies of youth), and I spent the next two hours in his company, being driven round the mountains and valleys that surround Beirut. He even took me to meet his family.

And that was a rather long-winded way of explaining why, although I understand and agree with what Israel has had to in the last few days, I weep for Beirut and for Lebanon. The country has spent fifteen years trying to recover form the ravages of the 1970s and 1980s. It has elected a democratic government and its fragile economy is slowly being rebuilt. Beirut has transformed itself from a pile of rubble into a city that can again attract tourists and investment. Western airlines continue to increase the frequency of their flights, a sure sign that recovery is underway.

But the bombing of the airport's three runways, the destruction of key roads and bridges, and the blockade of its ports, will have done immense harm to the country's recovery. The people I met were all very optimistic about their country's future, and desperate to play their part in its rebuilding. They wanted to break free from Syrian domination. Above all, they wanted democracy.

So the fact that all this has been placed in jeopardy, at a time when that recovery was at its strongest, is a very bitter pill to swallow, both for those in Lebanon and those of us outside who wish it well.

But the Lebanese have a choice to make now. Either they can allow their country to be taken over by another generation of militant zealots, or they can fight them. I hope they choose the latter course of action.

But the Israelis have a choice to make too. They can take George Bush's advice and exercise restraint, having understandably, and rightly, made their point in a very direct manner. Or they can squeeze the democratic life out of a country that doesn't deserve it, and unwittingly help the very militant forces they wish to destroy.



http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/iain_dale/2006/07/post_228.html
 

*

Azraael

  • Perito
  • **
  • 413
  • +0/-0
    • http://www.bgoncalves.com
(sem assunto)
« Responder #18 em: Julho 14, 2006, 06:47:28 pm »
Citar
Israelis cut the route to Iran


ISRAELI fighter jets have destroyed the main road linking Lebanon to Syria and pounded the Hezbollah heartland in the south of Beirut in a bid to stop militants smuggling two captured soldiers to Iran.

The Lebanese capital is now isolated, with Israeli planes and ships controlling the sky and waterways two days after the soldiers were seized by Hezbollah militants in a cross-border raid that has sparked the most serious violence in Lebanon since the height of its civil war.

Claiming he had "sealed his own fate", Israel yesterday threatened to assassinate Hezbollah secretary-general Hassan Nasrallah, who trumpeted the soldiers' kidnappings on Wednesday.

Israeli intelligence chiefs had earlier received information that Hezbollah may try to use the land border with Syria to smuggle their captives into the hands of arch-enemy Iran.

The Australian Government said last night there were 2800 Australian citizens registered in Beirut. The Australian-Lebanese community in the city is estimated at up to 25,000.

Australia has reopened its embassy in Beirut to provide passports and emergency assistance to its nationals, but could offer no guarantees land routes out of the country were safe.

"People are best served by staying indoors, and we're attempting to determine the extent to which land crossings from Lebanon into Syria are safe to use," a Foreign Affairs Department spokesman said.

Rockets continued to barrage Israel's northern towns and cities from Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon, with two reaching the port city of Haifa, more than 30km from where they were launched.

Hezbollah, which launched 85 rockets on Thursday, claimed it had developed rockets that could reach all corners of Israel.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad yesterday warned Israel not to attack Syria in a bid to punish Hezbollah, claiming such a strike would lead to a "fierce response".
"If the Zionist regime commits another stupid move and attacks Syria, this will be considered likeattacking the whole Islamic world and this regime will receive a very fierce response," he said in a telephone conversation with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad that was later recounted by statemedia.

World leaders have urged restraint, fearing the conflict could spark a regional war. UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan said he was "profoundly worried" by developments and condemned attacks against civilians. As many as 61 Lebanese have been killed in three days of raids.

John Howard said he feared the siege of Beirut could topple the fragile Lebanese Government. "I don't think Lebanon is in a strong enough position," he said. "One of the worries in all of what is happening is that the present Lebanese Government, weak though it may be, could fall and be replaced by a government even more heavily under the influence of Syria."

A UN Security Council delegation is heading to the region in a bid to limit the crisis.

Israel last night bombed the main road to Beirut International Airport and, for the first time, a terminal. Israel dropped six bombs on the airport's three runways on Thursday. Bombs also fell on a power transformer in Beirut's south and bridges.

Jet fighters dropped leaflets over central Beirut warning Lebanese civilians that Hezbollah was leading them to ruin.



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19793793-601,00.html
 

*

Azraael

  • Perito
  • **
  • 413
  • +0/-0
    • http://www.bgoncalves.com
(sem assunto)
« Responder #19 em: Julho 14, 2006, 06:49:15 pm »
Citar
G-8 summit leaders split over Lebanon invasion


On the eve of the Group of Eight summit meeting, the United States and several of its allies split Thursday over the Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
 
President George W. Bush defended the incursion as a justified response to a terrorist act, while the European Union and Russia, the G-8 host, condemned it as "disproportionate."
 
That division will add a new fault line to an already thorny and complex set of international issues awaiting the eight leading countries when they meet this weekend in St. Petersburg, Russia.
 
The reaction separates the United States from two other members of the so-called Quartet - a group that includes the European Union, the United Nations and Russia - which has been pursuing an Israeli-Palestinian peace.
 
Bush, in a news conference in Stralsund, Germany, with Chancellor Angela Merkel, suggested that the Israeli attack had been provoked by "a group of terrorists who want to stop the advance of peace." He added that "Israel has the right to defend herself."
 
The president was referring to the Hezbollah militants who on Wednesday took two Israeli soldiers hostage. Israel reacted sharply, blockading Lebanese ports and launching air attacks on Beirut airport and two military airbases. But Bush also expressed concern about the impact of the latest hostilities.
 
"Whatever Israel does should not weaken the Siniora government in Lebanon," the president said. "We have been working very hard through the United Nations and with our partners to strengthen the democracy in Lebanon."
 
And because of its ties to Hezbollah, Bush said, "Syria needs to be held to account."
 
Chancellor Merkel, who hosted Bush at a barbecue Wednesday in her home jurisdiction of Stralsund, in part echoed his comments. She said, in remarks rendered by an interpreter, that it was important to remember "how this escalation started, through the kidnapping of the soldiers, through rockets - from the firing of missiles against Israeli territory."
 
"The parties to that conflict obviously have to use proportionate means, but I am not at all for sort of blurring the lines between the root causes and the consequences of an action," she said.
 
In contrast, a European Union statement criticized the Israeli response.
 
"The European Union is greatly concerned about the disproportionate use of force by Israel in Lebanon in response to attacks by Hezbollah on Israel," it said. "The presidency deplores the loss of civilian lives and the destruction of civilian infrastructure. The imposition of an air and sea blockade on Lebanon cannot be justified."
 
Separate statements from the British, French and Russian governments each referred to the use of "disproportionate" force by Israel.
 
"One cannot justify the continued destruction by Israel of the civilian infrastructure in Lebanon and in Palestinian territory, involving the disproportionate use of force in which the civilian population suffers," said a Russian statement. But it added: "All forms of terrorism are completely unacceptable. All sides involved in the current events should take rapid measures to stop the region sliding into open conflict."
 
In London, a spokesman for Prime Minister Tony Blair said that while Britain condemned the kidnappings and had called for restraint "on all sides," the government had also urged Israel to respond proportionately, Agence France-Presse reported.
 
Blair was to discuss the issue later Thursday with the EU security representative, Javier Solana.
 
France, working closely with the United States and the United Nations, helped press Syria last year to withdraw the thousands of troops it had kept for years in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley. Alluding to this, Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy of France used unusually strong language Thursday to condemn the Israeli response.
 
"We obviously condemn this disproportionate act of war, which moreover has two consequences," he said. "The first is that it forces anyone who wants to enter Lebanon from now on to go either by sea or via Syria. The second consequence is that it risks plunging Lebanon back into the worst years of the war."
 
Sami Khiyami, the Syrian ambassador to Britain, said that Damascus respected Hezbollah's "aspirations" but was asking it "to calm down, to come to terms," the BBC reported. "But the Israelis have on their side to stop the state terrorism on the one hand and to come to the negotiation table, whether direct or indirect, with these people in order to release the prisoners of both sides."
 
The Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, said that the Israeli offensive was "raising our fears of a new regional war," The Associated Press reported. The Arab League secretary- general, Amr Mussa, warned of "big chaos" in the region and said, "Israel is behind all that is happening."



http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/13/news/react.php
 

*

Azraael

  • Perito
  • **
  • 413
  • +0/-0
    • http://www.bgoncalves.com
(sem assunto)
« Responder #20 em: Julho 14, 2006, 06:58:28 pm »
Citação de: "papatango"
Mas o que é que os libaneses têm a ver com a situação ?
Talvez o facto de andarem a decadas a dar abrigo ao Hezbollah? Sem duvida que isso se deve muito a influencias sirias, mas nao deixam de ser responsaveis pelos proprios actos... E considerando as relacoes "intimas" entre o Hezbollah e o Irao, nao me admiraria muito se o rapto dos dois soldados que deu origem a esta escalada nao passasse de uma manobra de diversao para desviar as atencoes do programa nuclear iraniano... mas talvez (espero!) isto nao passem de devaneios meus...  :mrgreen:

Citação de: "Marauder"
E se os israelitas não retirassem das Quintas de Sheeba, não evitaria problemas com o Hezbollah?
A retirada de gaza resolveu alguma coisa?

Citação de: "14_NS_88"
Os judeus resolveram ocupar o territorio onde agora é Israel, sem terem direito a ele, é perfeitamente normal que os Palestinianos (os donos daquele territorio por direito) se revoltem e que o restante mundo arabe os apoie.
Quem lhes deu a legitimidade para o fazerem foi precisamente o teu "tio" adolfo..

Citação de: "14_NS_88"
Sem querer ofender ninguém, cada vez mais dou razão ao presidente Iraniano: Israel tem de desapaecer do mapa.
Vindo de um nazi assumido, nao seria de esperar outra coisa...
 

*

Marauder

  • Investigador
  • *****
  • 2102
  • +0/-0
(sem assunto)
« Responder #21 em: Julho 14, 2006, 07:07:57 pm »
Citação de: "Azraael"
Citação de: "Marauder"
E se os israelitas não retirassem das Quintas de Sheeba, não evitaria problemas com o Hezbollah?
A retirada de gaza resolveu alguma coisa?


Então...Israel está a pedir 3 condições para o fim das operações militares....se somente 2 condições forem cumpridas...resolverá a situação? (percebes a analogia?)

Logo, secalhar se tivessem cumprido todas as ideias pelo que o Hezbollah luta, secalhar este deixaria de lutar....tal como de certeza que Israel está à espera que sejam cumpridas essas 3 exigências (embora a 3ª do desarmamento do Hezbollah seja "puxada")..


Vai lá então dizer aos libaneses isso....decerteza que eles vão compreender a causa israelita....tal como poderias ir falar em 2000 com os iraquianos que a culpa do Saddam estar no poder era dele. Embora o caso libanês seja um pouco diferente...visto que..o poder não se encontra no governo libanês..mas pronto..a culpa é dos libaneses...
 

*

ricardonunes

  • Investigador
  • *****
  • 3535
  • Recebeu: 26 vez(es)
  • Enviou: 1 vez(es)
  • +5/-4
(sem assunto)
« Responder #22 em: Julho 14, 2006, 07:44:41 pm »
Parece que um dos navios Israelitas foi atingido por um missíl.
http://www.cnn.com/
Potius mori quam foedari
 

*

Azraael

  • Perito
  • **
  • 413
  • +0/-0
    • http://www.bgoncalves.com
(sem assunto)
« Responder #23 em: Julho 14, 2006, 07:51:48 pm »
Citação de: "Marauder"
Logo, secalhar se tivessem cumprido todas as ideias pelo que o Hezbollah luta, secalhar este deixaria de lutar....
Recomendas a cedencia perante as "exigencias" de terroristas? Isso nao tornaria o terrorismo uma forma legitima de atingir objectivos politicos? Nao me parece la muito boa ideia...

Quanto aos iraquianos serem responsaveis por terem mantido o Saddam no poder, eles se calhar podiam ter aprendido alguma coisa com um tal de "25 de Abril" ou outros do genero... As ditaduras so persistem enquanto o povo o permitir...
 

*

Marauder

  • Investigador
  • *****
  • 2102
  • +0/-0
(sem assunto)
« Responder #24 em: Julho 14, 2006, 08:00:47 pm »
Citação de: "Azraael"
Citação de: "Marauder"
Logo, secalhar se tivessem cumprido todas as ideias pelo que o Hezbollah luta, secalhar este deixaria de lutar....
Recomendas a cedencia perante as "exigencias" de terroristas? Isso nao tornaria o terrorismo uma forma legitima de atingir objectivos politicos? Nao me parece la muito boa ideia...

A mim não me parece boa ideia que Israel ocupe território libanês...logo é natural que sejam atacados...relembra-te para o quê é que o Hizbollah foi criado...

Citação de: "Azraael"
Quanto aos iraquianos serem responsaveis por terem mantido o Saddam no poder, eles se calhar podiam ter aprendido alguma coisa com um tal de "25 de Abril" ou outros do genero... As ditaduras so persistem enquanto o povo o permitir...


É verdade...já ouviste falar da guerra civil libanesa?...vai lá consultar isso no wikipédia..

E já agora...lá porque alguns países conseguem "dar a volta" de uma forma pacífica, isso não faz de isso regra geral...mas pronto...se fosses libanês saberias isso...como não és...escreves "25 de abril" como se a malta não soubesse o que isso é..
« Última modificação: Julho 14, 2006, 08:02:01 pm por Marauder »
 

*

aero

  • 118
  • +0/-0
(sem assunto)
« Responder #25 em: Julho 14, 2006, 08:01:36 pm »
O Bravo Two Zero postou aqui este link e aconselho a leitura pq isto explica que os Libaneses são de muitas origens. A mudança de poder em israel deu nisto. Nem todos os Libaneses estão do lado do Hezbollah.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_P ... Lebanon%29
 

*

Marauder

  • Investigador
  • *****
  • 2102
  • +0/-0
(sem assunto)
« Responder #26 em: Julho 14, 2006, 08:07:55 pm »
Citação de: "aero"
O Bravo Two Zero postou aqui este link e aconselho a leitura pq isto explica que os Libaneses são de muitas origens. A mudança de poder em israel deu nisto. Nem todos os Libaneses estão do lado do Hezbollah.


Exacto...daí a guerra cívil libanesa...porque houve um grupo cristão que se fartou das actividades da OLP no Líbano e tentou acabar com isso, o que não foi bem o que os outros grupos pró-palestinianos tinham em mente...

Resultado...100mil mortos....aparentemente os cravos não chegaram lá..
 

*

Azraael

  • Perito
  • **
  • 413
  • +0/-0
    • http://www.bgoncalves.com
(sem assunto)
« Responder #27 em: Julho 14, 2006, 08:09:04 pm »
Citação de: "Marauder"
A mim não me parece boa ideia que Israel ocupe território libanês...logo é natural que sejam atacados...relembra-te para o quê é que o Hizbollah foi criado...
Nem eu estou a defender que ocupe territorio libanes... apenas que destrua o mais possivel o Hezbollah e todos os que o apoiam (com o minimo de danos colaterais possivel, como e' obvio).

Citação de: "Marauder"
E já agora...lá porque alguns países conseguem "dar a volta" de uma forma pacífica, isso não faz de isso regra geral...mas pronto...se fosses libanês saberias isso...como não és...escreves "25 de abril" como se a malta não soubesse o que isso é..
Dei o 25 de abril como exemplo de revolucao que derrubou uma ditadura... nao querendo com isso dizer que todas as revolucoes tem (ou podem sequer) ser pacificas. Poderia ter dado muitos outros exemplos, mas o 25 de abril pareceu-me ser aquele que estaria mais vivo na memoria colectivo do forum.
 

*

Marauder

  • Investigador
  • *****
  • 2102
  • +0/-0
(sem assunto)
« Responder #28 em: Julho 14, 2006, 08:21:24 pm »
Citação de: "Azraael"
Citação de: "Marauder"
A mim não me parece boa ideia que Israel ocupe território libanês...logo é natural que sejam atacados...relembra-te para o quê é que o Hizbollah foi criado...
Nem eu estou a defender que ocupe territorio libanes... apenas que destrua o mais possivel o Hezbollah e todos os que o apoiam (com o minimo de danos colaterais possivel, como e' obvio).


A meu ver a questão ultrapassa completamente isso....os EUA também foram atrás da Al-qaeda...e conseguiram derrubar os talibans e tudo...qual foi o resultado prático disso? e da morte do Al-Zarqawi?

A questão é...embora os grupos terroristas usem métodos...terroristas...os motivos que levam à sua criação, na maioria dos casos ainda fazem sentido.......o Hezbollah foi para a retirada israelita do Líbano...que estes fizeram em 2000 (pelo qual o grupo lutou 18 anos)....mas não completamente...afinal..as Quintas de Sheeba também são libanesas, mas os israelitas decidiram as manter já não me lembro porqué  <---- razão pelo que o Hezbollah continuou a luta..

  Eu continuo a defender que a única maneira é pelo diálogo..pelas armas até se pode pensar que se tem uma vitória total no terreno (porque os israelitas já tiveram bastantes sucessos militares)...mas no medio/longo prazo não significam nada..

  Mas pronto...são ideias diferentes...estranhamente o conflicto da ETA e do IRA parece que se vai resolver pelo diálogo...e que agora a moda das "independências" é pelos referenduns e não pela luta..

 É uma polarização interessante.....ArmasVsDiálogo... infelizmente o diálogo não tem resultado muito...mas as armas também não..
 

*

Azraael

  • Perito
  • **
  • 413
  • +0/-0
    • http://www.bgoncalves.com
(sem assunto)
« Responder #29 em: Julho 14, 2006, 08:30:46 pm »
Citação de: "Marauder"
A questão é...embora os grupos terroristas usem métodos...terroristas...os motivos que levam à sua criação, na maioria dos casos ainda fazem sentido.......
Nem eu nunca disse o contrario... apenas defendo que a partir do momento em que recorram ao terrorismo perdem toda e qualquer razao que pudessem eventualmente ter.

Citação de: "Marauder"
Eu continuo a defender que a única maneira é pelo diálogo..
Sem duvida.. mas como e' que se dialoga com alguem que nao se preocupa com quanto s inocentes mata desde que consiga o que quer?

Citação de: "Marauder"
pelas armas até se pode pensar que se tem uma vitória total no terreno (porque os israelitas já tiveram bastantes sucessos militares)...mas no medio/longo prazo não significam nada..
Tambem e' verdade... mas a meu ver, o que me parece que israel ta a fazer e' mostrar que qualquer accao violenta contra israel sofrera uma retaliacao com "overwhelming force" (como diria o Collin Powell), deixando o dialogo como unica opcao viavel, eliminando todo e qualquer apoio que os terroristas possam ter. Tambem ha a questao que, israel, faca o que fizer, sera sempre criticada, pelo que me parece que entrou na fase do "perdido por cem..."
 

 

Israel aceita com condições a independência para a Palestina

Iniciado por Pimenta

Respostas: 1
Visualizações: 2196
Última mensagem Novembro 30, 2012, 09:01:02 am
por P44
Resolução do Conselho de Segurança condena Israel

Iniciado por JNSA

Respostas: 17
Visualizações: 4003
Última mensagem Junho 07, 2004, 12:51:26 pm
por Rui Elias
Israel e Palestina anunciam cessar-fogo

Iniciado por Ricardo Nunes

Respostas: 3
Visualizações: 1820
Última mensagem Março 22, 2005, 07:31:56 pm
por Normando
Estará Israel a ganhar a Intifada ?

Iniciado por fgomes

Respostas: 0
Visualizações: 1044
Última mensagem Dezembro 10, 2004, 06:13:49 pm
por fgomes
Israel compra misseis Patriot PAC-3

Iniciado por antoninho

Respostas: 8
Visualizações: 4963
Última mensagem Setembro 16, 2008, 03:10:32 pm
por nelson38899