E se o Exercito Português......?????

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antoninho

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E se o Exercito Português......?????
« em: Novembro 22, 2007, 10:38:36 pm »
Se o exercito português em vez de modernizar os M113 fosse por esta via, para acompanhar os LEO2A6???
 
Posted 11/19/07 20:13

Rheinmetall Offers To Lease Marders to Greece
Proposal Is New Ground For Company

ATHENS — Rheinmetall Defense has proposed to lease 164 Marder 1A3 armored infantry fighting vehicles to Greece, an offer that the German company’s officials say is the first of its kind.
“The vehicles are fully operational, immediately available to the Hellenic Army, and may be used either within Greek territory, or outside Greek borders, whenever the Greek government desires, without any political, operational, functional or legal restrictions whatsoever,” Michael Heinzemann, managing director of Rheinmetall Hellas, said at a news conference here.
There has been no official Greek reaction to Rheinmetall’s proposal, but a military source here described it as “very attractive” given the Army’s “real and pressing need” for such vehicles.
The price would depend on the length of the deal, Heinzemann said: for a five-year lease, the daily cost per vehicle would be 164 euros ($241); for four years, 196 euros; and for three years, 250 euros.
After the lease expires, Greece could return the vehicles with no further obligation, extend the lease for as long as desired, or “procure the vehicles at a very attractive price” with some offsets included, Heinzemann said.
Rheinmetall spokesman Oliver Hoffman called the proposal a worldwide first.
“Operational leasing is common for training or support functions, but for the first time, we offer the scheme to a customer for a main combat system. It is a new approach to meet our potential customers’ needs, and in the future we expect much activity in this field,” Hoffman said.
The Greek military source called the proposal very interesting but radical, because the military is used to buying gear outright.
“But ... the requirement is real and pressing, and the low cost, the immediate availability of the vehicles, the secure harmonic operational and tactical cooperation with [the Army’s] Leopard 2 main battle tank, and the lack of any infrastructure costs make it very attractive,” he said. “The Army can fulfill its immediate needs without committing significant financial resources, and allocate all the available funds to the introduction of a new armored infantry fighting vehicle when the government decides to launch the program.”
The Hellenic Army operates 401 BMP-1 armored vehicles, procured in the early 1990s through the Conventional Forces in Europe framework from former East German Army stocks. The vehicles are outdated, have minimal operational value and are being gradually withdrawn from service.
According to Greece’s 2005-2020 Future Force Structure plan, the Army needs 520 armored infantry vehicles. A budget of 1.7 billion euros has been allocated to procure 291 of them.
Deal Details
The 164 vehicles would be delivered painted with Greek camouflage colors, including all national signs and other notices with labels in the Greek language on all functional systems, Heinzemann said.
“Our proposal is in full compliance with the provisions of the Greek military procurement law,” Heinsemann said.
“By accepting our proposal, the Hellenic Army will acquire immediately a considerable number of fully operational and combat-condition [armored infantry fighting vehicles], which can be used without any political, operational, functional and legal restrictions, either within, or outside the Greek territory for indefinite hours of usage, or mileage,” he said.
“Furthermore, there is no need for any investment in technical support and logistics infrastructure, since this will be fulfilled by Rheinmetall, wherever on Greek territory and whenever needed, on the same quality basis as to the German Army.”
Deliveries of the vehicles to Hellenic Army field units — up to 20 per month — can start within four weeks after a contract is signed, he said.
Each vehicle will be operationally functional, fully armed and will include one RH-202 MK 20mm automatic cannon, as well as a 7.62mm MG3 coaxial machine gun. If available, the vehicles also could be armed with one Milan anti-tank missile launcher.
The lease rates quoted include a basic load of 300 rounds of 20mm ammunition per vehicle, to cover initial needs and training requirements.
“The full load of ammunition [1,250 rounds of 20mm and 5,000 rounds of 7.62mm ammunition] is available by increasing the daily leasing cost by 10 percent,” Heinzemann said. “In all cases, we are ready to provide 20mm armor piercing ammunition either via a government-to-government agreement between Greece and Germany, from the German Army’s surplus, or in the framework of an industrial cooperation with the Hellenic Defence Systems SA, which possess experience in producing anti-aircraft ammunition for the 20mm RH202 MK20 cannon.”
Other provisions of the proposal, according to Heinzemann:
å A complete combat simulation system for the training of operational and maintenance personnel at the unit level would be transported and installed in Greece at a site to be selected by the Hellenic Army.
å Four technical experts from Rheinmetall would be positioned at two Army-selected sites in Greece, where they would remain throughout the leasing period to meet technical training and support needs.
å Rheinmetall would provide complete technical and operational documentation, along with special tools, kits, test equipment and consumables for repair and maintenance of the vehicles, plus an adequate stock of main and secondary spare parts.
å Rheinmetall would be responsible for all maintenance and repairs. å


http://www.panzer-modell.de/referenz/in ... der1a3.htm
 

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Johnnie

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Re: E se o Exercito Português......?????
« Responder #1 em: Novembro 22, 2007, 10:43:33 pm »
Citação de: "antoninho"
Se o exercito português em vez de modernizar os M113 fosse por esta via, para acompanhar os LEO2A6???
 


Rheinmetall Offers To Lease Marders to Greece
Proposal Is New Ground For Company

ATHENS — Rheinmetall Defense has proposed to lease 164 Marder 1A3 armored infantry fighting vehicles to Greece


 :twisted:
«When everything is coming your way... You are in the wrong lane!!!!"
 

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antoninho

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« Responder #2 em: Novembro 22, 2007, 10:59:57 pm »
Quem diz que não vendiam?? Como vem aí uma despesa bem choruda(para os alemães) nada como aproveitar a ocasião.....

Posted 11/18/07 15:11

German Panel Approves 3 Billion Euros for Pumas

BONN, Germany — The German parliament’s budget committee approved the 3 billion euro ($4.4 billion) purchase of 405 Puma infantry fighting vehicles Nov. 8, a vote seen as even more crucial than the support of the defense committee in the current belt-tightening environment.
“The decision in favor of the Puma doesn’t come as a surprise; in fact, it was anticipated much earlier this year,” one investment analyst said. “But still, it gives the companies involved much-needed planning reliability.”
The Puma is to replace 634 Marder vehicles that have been in service since the 1970s and lack protection against modern threats.
The Puma is being produced by PSM, a joint venture of Krauss-Maffei Wegmann and Rheinmetall Landsysteme, the two major German land systems producers.
“This is the biggest single order in the history of our company, and definitely confirms our status as Europe’s top supplier of army technology,” said Klaus Eberhardt, Rheinmetall’s chief executive.
The groundwork for the Puma was laid in the late 1990s, when a New Armored Platforms study looked at new platforms for various battle roles.
In 2002, the Bundestag awarded a development contract for the Puma, leading two years later to the 350 million euro order of five prototype Pumas, which are now being tested. Pumas are to begin replacing Marders by 2010.
One Army officer said the Puma is already sporting exceptional protection and has been designed to be easy to upgrade with new armor and protective systems, and to manufacture in other configurations.
Future vehicles built on the Puma chassis could even include a replacement for the Leopard 2 main battle tank, Army officials said.
Arming the Puma
The Army is looking at arming its future fleet of Puma IFVs as well as selected infantry and engineer troops with a light multirole missile (Mehrrollenfähiges leichtes Lenkflugkörpersystem MELLS) to hit tanks, helicopters and bunkers.
Officials say an existing missile might fill the bill, and they are looking at the Spike Long Range or Euro Spike, by Diehl BGT Defence, Rheinmetall Defence and Rafael; and the Milan ADT-ER (Advanced Technology-Extended Response), by MBDA/LFK.
The Army is seeking to buy 440 launchers for the Puma fleet and 90 for the infantry with 700 missiles to cover both demands.
Covering these demands with Euro Spike would cost 1.39 billion euros; equipping the troops for the same use with the Milan ADT-ER missile would cost about 787 million euros. That is a difference of some 610 million euros compared with Euro Spike. The Milan family is already in use with the German Army.
Arming the Puma with the missile, which is not part of the current effort, would take an extra 38 million euros, the source said.
Army officials want a quick decision so that MELLS can deploy aboard Puma in 2010. å
 

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Duarte

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« Responder #3 em: Novembro 23, 2007, 02:28:40 am »
50 ou 60 Marder vinham memso a calhar  :D
слава Україна!

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LM

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« Responder #4 em: Novembro 23, 2007, 10:36:43 am »
Citar
50 ou 60 Marder vinham memso a calhar


Os especialistas que confirmem, mas parece-me pouco para 2 agrupamentos mecanizados... julgo que os necessários seriam aproximadamente o dobro (ie, cerca 110) :?
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
 

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nelson38899

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« Responder #5 em: Novembro 23, 2007, 10:45:10 am »
Boas

Eu cá para mim, sou a favor de comprar material novo. Por esta razão "The Puma is to replace 634 Marder vehicles that have been in service since the 1970s and LACK protection against modern threats." Ter material só por ter mais vale ficar com o que se tem.

Cump.
"Que todo o mundo seja «Portugal», isto é, que no mundo toda a gente se comporte como têm comportado os portugueses na história"
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ShadIntel

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« Responder #6 em: Novembro 23, 2007, 10:45:59 am »
Citação de: "LM"
Citar
50 ou 60 Marder vinham memso a calhar

Os especialistas que confirmem, mas parece-me pouco para 2 agrupamentos mecanizados... julgo que os necessários seriam aproximadamente o dobro (ie, cerca 110) :)
 

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ShadIntel

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« Responder #7 em: Novembro 23, 2007, 10:57:26 am »
Citação de: "nelson38899"
Boas

Eu cá para mim, sou a favor de comprar material novo. Por esta razão "The Puma is to replace 634 Marder vehicles that have been in service since the 1970s and LACK protection against modern threats." Ter material só por ter mais vale ficar com o que se tem.

Cump.

Que bom seria ter material novo.  :(
Vou deixar os especialistas decidir o que será melhor, mas apesar das limitações do Marder em termos de protecção, não lhes parece que seria interessante começar a acumular experiência no uso do duo MBT/AFV. Podem fazer-se todas as modernizações possíveis aos M113, nunca irão desempenhar a função de AFV com a mesma eficácia que um veículo dedicado.
 

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nelson38899

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« Responder #8 em: Novembro 23, 2007, 11:27:29 am »
boas

Se pensar-mos dessa maneira, não são precisos 60 ou 110 mas visto que objectivo é só criar uma escola mais vale ter a mesma quantidade que os Leo's porque pensando bem, e devido ás nossas condições materiais Portugal não tem capacidade para enviar e manter esse tipo de veículo em teatros de operações.

Cump.
"Que todo o mundo seja «Portugal», isto é, que no mundo toda a gente se comporte como têm comportado os portugueses na história"
Agostinho da Silva